THE SACRED #7

[johannes chimpo]

Osyris et al...

i want to make a distinction between something that is one, and some one thing

do you know what that distinction is yet?

well, the distinction is the same as the distinction between the absolute and the relative

the nature of one, oneness, is absolutely unitary and is therefore absolutely existent, and actually is the foundation for physicality (things that come into being aka the universe or whatever we want to call it)

the nature of oneness i'm talking about is expounded beautifully in plato's parmenides, but the gist of it is that "if *it* is one", then it is neither whole nor part because it is not in space, has no age (did not come into being nor will it cease to be - in the way things like us or chairs or whatever are "mortal") because it is not part of time...basically has no measure or quality, but is simply what it means to be one

then, when that oneness is some thing, it turns out to be one person, one door, one love, one whatever...yet the nature of this kind of one is in coherence with the nature of the laws of the universe, if we can call them that, such that things can be discriminated and distinguished as "one thing", yet in fact they are, upon further mathematical investigation, holons. one whole thing actually has infinite pieces to it.

so, the nature of one i'm talking about is metaphysically more mathematically fundamental than anything else.

i say metaphysically more "mathematical" because perhaps there is some power more metaphysically fundamental than the aforementioned math, ie. nature of oneness


am i making sense?



the thing i see as most alike to this unity is the unity of consciousness/awareness





p.s. i'm not trying to take anything away from the number 7 or 9 or whatever, because i feel those numbers are just as significant in their own respects

[SAMURAI36]

PEACE O:

In continuing with the discussion (others may feel free to Add-On as well):

Which definitions are you using? Tell me what you mean by metaphysics and then we can proceed along those lines.

Both, actually:

The first definition is most applicable to this discussion in particular, but no moreso than the others, in real-life aspects.

The second is merely the means to the end, or the methodology for coming to an understanding about the first definition.

The third is the frame of mind that I've been trying to tell you ever since I've known, that you need to adopt, in order to fathom these concepts in the first place.

But I digress.......

For the sake of this discussion, let's go with the first definition.

By definition, no. Explain what you mean.

See the previous statement.

Pending what you got out of that (if anything), the number 7, metaphysically speaking, becomes a spiritual representation, that transcends it being merely a counting tool.

It's nature becomes qualitative, rather than quantitative.

This is the very same for the number 1, which is what I've been trying to convey here, that you seem to continuously miss.

Therefore, there is nothing whatsoever mundane about ONE, lest you are prepared to say the same about SEVEN.

As for one being mundane, it is. Mathematically, and practically, its of course significant, but spiritually, its not like seven.

Given my previous statement, I'm going (once again) ask you to SHOW AND PROVE how that is the case.

Please be careful where you tread though.......Are you sure you are qualified to speak on the spiritual mechanics of numerology?

No, Im not and I don't intend to. My argument doesn't rest on an explanation, but on the fact itself. The sky is blue, no? I can't explain why and I dn't need to.

I'm very disappointed O.........Though I'm not really sure why.

I knew you couldn't x-plain why from the start, upon asking you to do so.

You are aware that I'm fully prepared to do so, and eloquently no less?

Something is not "a FACT", unless it can be x-plained as such.

That is the most simple aspect of SCIENCE at work.

The SKY is BLUE, because of the gases in the atmosphere.

Umm...no. It really depends on who'se concept of God you mean. I can only speak for mine. I can also point out blatant trends in beliefs, but thats about it.

This, coming from someone, who "can't explain why and doesn't need to", is rather contradictory, and rather lacking in credibility.

Either you can x-plain it, or you can't.

I'm saying that you can't, simply because you don't know how.........And that sort of knowledge comes from definition #3 of metaphysics.

What do you have to say on the matter? I say its symbolic as it denotes something of God's. Why the seven is used, I don't know. Im assuming you do? If so, explain.

OK, that's better. At least admit that you don't know.....Such an admission works to put credibility back into your perspective.

X-pounding upon what I said earlier in this post, 7 as a concept defines the primeness and universal balance of the forces of nature:

3 POSITVE = physical, mental, and spiritual

3 NEGATIVE = physical, mental, and spiritual

1 NEUTRAL = the judge, the balance.

As stated previously, this concept remains universal, all throughout the various beliefs systems (and there are MANY) that utilize numerology as the foundation of that system.

The names are different, but the principles remain very much the same.

Why?

".........."

You know, I'm beginning to realize that this conversation was started wrong......You were arguing a point that you really don't understand, and never did to begin with.

What does a "ZERO" look like? The answer lies within the symbol itself.

No it doesn't. The 7 is not coincidental. The 9 is merely indicative of coincidental way of thinking. The thai boxers could function quite well with 7 stars.

Nothing in x-sistence functions properly without a mathematical foundation.

Why exactly?

Refer back to the 3RD definition of metaphysics.

The Wu are thai boxers? No.

C'mon, don't do that, O. I never said any such ridiculous statement, nor did I imply such.

I showed you how important the number 9 (or any number) is......

I never said that the number was of no importance to ANYONE.

.......And it's not about who it's important to, but the fact that it's important to ITSELF.

The concepts that numbers represent, remain constant, regardless of the phenomena that they are designated to represent.

Isn't 9 still 9, regardless of whether its "9 APPLES", "9 PLANETS", "9 WEAPONS", or "9 GENERALS"?

The circumstance changes, but the principle remains the same.

As for why its important to them, it's literally 36 chambers.

Actually, that's not the significance of 9 in that scenario.

CONTRA added some very good info about it in his post, but suffice it to say, that 9 does something that none of the other numbers can do.........For that matter, ALL of the numbers do what none of the others can do.......And that's what makes them all far from "mundane".

Which is what? 8 limbs, 9 limbs, 9 weapons, etc, are generally descriptive more than anything.

I answered this already, but unless you have the mechanics of definition #3 down pat, it will continue to be amiss.

[SAMURAI36]

PEACE JOHNNY:

am i making sense?

Perfectly. ;D

You said precisely what I did, just in a more pragmatic way.

[contrastiktion]

SAMURAI7ASSASSIN said:

but suffice it to say, that 9 does something that none of the other numbers can do.........

i don't know if this is what you are refering to (although it probably is)... but in numerology a 9 dosen't ever change the quality of another number... for instance, when breaking down someones b-day #, i immediately toss out all the nines, or any 9's i can make (ie 6,3), because they simply cancel out... SO,

any factor or sum of nine, when added to a single digit, will equal nine... its actually kind of strange

9
18
27
36
45
54
63

[Os3y3ris]

Context. There aren't nine weapons because the number 9 is important. There just happen to be 9 weapons. Your overall response conveniently destroys all contexts that define importance. The whole concept of importance is subjective, not objective. The Wu may have a certain love for a number that thai boxers might not care about in the least. What you're doing here in all aspects of this discussion is juxtaposing the nature of something in one arena into another. For every ant colony, the queen is the most important thing in the world. Do I care? NO. If it becomes annoying, Ill kill that queen without thinking twice. She's of no importance to me. That being the case, I can say that she is of no importance. The ant disagrees. So when talking in the context of an ant colony, and in the context of my house, there will be two answers.

I have a certain number of hair on my head. Is that number now important to me? No, in fact, Id much prefer a greater number. What IS important is HAIR. Not the specific number of them.

Your logic in all aspects of this conversation is deeply flawed.

[SAMURAI36]

PEACE CONTRA:

i don't know if this is what you are refering to (although it probably is)... but in numerology a 9 dosen't ever change the quality of another number... for instance, when breaking down someones b-day #, i immediately toss out all the nines, or any 9's i can make (ie 6,3), because they simply cancel out...

That's an interesting numerological methodology......One that I'd never tried before.

However, that's actually not what I was referring to, though I believe that it has some correlation (doesn't it all? And isn't that the whole point?)

PEACE O:

Context. There aren't nine weapons because the number 9 is important. There just happen to be 9 weapons. Your overall response conveniently destroys all contexts that define importance. The whole concept of importance is subjective, not objective. The Wu may have a certain love for a number that thai boxers might not care about in the least.

You're continuing to miss the point, which is plainly underlined in the 3RD definition of metaphysics. However, for that matter:

What you're doing here in all aspects of this discussion is juxtaposing the nature of something in one arena into another. For every ant colony, the queen is the most important thing in the world. Do I care? NO. If it becomes annoying, Ill kill that queen without thinking twice. She's of no importance to me. That being the case, I can say that she is of no importance. The ant disagrees. So when talking in the context of an ant colony, and in the context of my house, there will be two answers.

Do you have the slightest understanding of how METAPHYSICS as a whole (re: all 3 definitions) works??

You have yet to even begin to convey an understanding here, let alone apply it.

I have a certain number of hair on my head. Is that number now important to me? No, in fact, Id much prefer a greater number. What IS important is HAIR. Not the specific number of them.

Not only is that wholly incorrect, but I'm not sure you'll understand why it is so, despite my best x-planations.

Suffice it to say, MATHEMATICS is the universal language, be it literal, rhetorical, abstract, or concrete.....

Math is the language that one concept uses to talk to another.

There's a reason why you have mathematically less hairs on your head......And that reason is intrinsically tied to your lack of knowledge about it, as well as a great many other things.

I'd tell you where to look, as well as how to go about getting your hair back, but we both know that you are not going to do either.