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Post by Os3y3ris on Nov 5, 2004 11:37:56 GMT -5
What are your opinions on the book? There seems to be a lot of confusion on what its about, what its saying and what machiavelli's opinion is.
I personally see it as an exploration of ethics. Machiavelli isn't just proposing specific ruling strategies, but laying down the principles that allow the prince to operate on a different level of morality so as to handle his responsibilty to the masses.
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Post by Kephrem on Nov 6, 2004 5:34:58 GMT -5
PEACE
I've noticed that quite a few people have been mentioning this book as a must read for some time now. I also would be interested in what may be the other CRADLE members views on this book.
SHALAM
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Post by Os3y3ris on Nov 19, 2004 15:27:26 GMT -5
NO ONE has read The Prince? One of the greatest literary works ever. Ethics, philosophy, politics, and war all linked and broken down.
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Post by SAMURAI36 on Nov 21, 2004 8:30:02 GMT -5
NO ONE has read The Prince? One of the greatest literary works ever. Ethics, philosophy, politics, and war all linked and broken down. I've been meaning to......I suppose I should make efforts to purchase a copy, and then move from there. O, would you mind breaking down some of the pro's and con's of the book? |
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Post by Os3y3ris on Nov 21, 2004 9:52:30 GMT -5
Pros:
-Well written.
-Interesting ethical stance whether you agree or not.
-Historically educational in is own right and in that it includes many older historical notes.
-Applicable to daily life in most aspects.
Cons:
-You probably won't LIKE his ideas. Doesnt make the any less genius though.
-Too much amiguity regarding virtu or whatever.
-Uses of religion and luck to avoid speaking on some examples may annoy. Not prevalant though, and all ideas are fleshed out.
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Post by SAMURAI36 on Nov 21, 2004 10:50:55 GMT -5
Hmm, interesting.......Do any specific quotes or statements come to mind, or stand out the most for you?
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Post by Os3y3ris on Nov 21, 2004 11:42:15 GMT -5
I had to look up the exact wording, but this concept has stuck with me:
"For injuries ought to be done all at one time, so that, being tasted less, they offend less; benefits ought to be given little by little, so that the flavour of them may last longer."
The genius of The Prince is that it so blurs the lines between good and evil, justice and injustice. Its the most eloquent justification of evil that you will ever see and it will make you question morality. And at the end of the day, I honestly don't know if he's right or wrong. Do the end justify the means? Thats what Machiavelli deals with.
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Post by SAMURAI36 on Nov 30, 2004 9:49:39 GMT -5
PEACE O:
Interesting perspective, though not one I'm at all unfamiliar with (48 LAWS OF POWER deals with similar concepts; I'll probably post that book up later).......
And, considering what I know of MACH's pathology, I'm not at all surprised that he would follow route with this philosophy (many of his contemporaries did, whether they admitted to doing so or not).
I suppose I should at least purchase the book for its historical significance, if nothing else.
PEACE
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Post by Os3y3ris on Nov 30, 2004 14:50:44 GMT -5
It IS basic utilitaraianism so you've probably heard it all before. The thing tht makes the prince great is the he argues it well. You should read it for the argument as well as the historcal benefits.
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Post by Subtle Energies on Mar 12, 2005 22:32:40 GMT -5
I thought it made some very good points on leading etc. However, I got the impression Machavelli was all for ruthlessness for the sake of the greater good which just isn't in me personally...
I have a copy of it with the Art of War (Machavelli version) ... I am yet to read the Art of War.
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Post by Subtle Energies on Mar 12, 2005 22:34:26 GMT -5
"For injuries ought to be done all at one time, so that, being tasted less, they offend less; benefits ought to be given little by little, so that the flavour of them may last longer."For some reason this stuck with me too. 
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Post by SAMURAI36 on Mar 27, 2005 16:52:25 GMT -5
I thought it made some very good points on leading etc. However, I got the impression Machavelli was all for ruthlessness for the sake of the greater good which just isn't in me personally... I have a copy of it with the Art of War (Machavelli version) ... I am yet to read the Art of War. Ironically, I bought ART OF WAR at/around the same time as I bought THE PRINCE....... I only skimmed through the PRINCE, and it puts me more in the mind of 48 LAWS OF POWER, which I find rather morally disgusting, but I can see why various power-holders in this world love both concepts so much. NICK, I can tell you that ART OF WAR is a FAR better read. You won't be disappointed, especially considering your enthusiasm with martial arts. PEACE |
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Post by Os3y3ris on Mar 27, 2005 18:06:13 GMT -5
You should go back and actually read The Prince. The Art of War was good, but didn't give me too much to think on while The Prince was full of controversial ideas for me to chew on.
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Post by Os3y3ris on Mar 27, 2005 18:20:11 GMT -5
And as far as those laws of power go, Machiavelli would be laughing his ass off.
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