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Post by Os3y3ris on Dec 30, 2004 14:40:20 GMT -5
Not sure what I think of it. The dialouge was awful and the philosphy a tad sparse given the amount of subject matter that they had. The characters were almost nonexistent in ways that mattered as they all had the same things to say. They had different mannerisms, but repeat the same, unoriginal thoughts. Everything out of everyone's mouth is either a quote, or tries hard to be quotable.
I will say though, that it had its moments. Batsuo's comments and behavior at the end was shocking and illustrated the philosophy of the film quite well. It flips your perspective of what you've been seeing completely upside down and really saves the movie in my opinion. The creepiness of the dolls is outstanding as is their inhumanity. The lack of life really sets a cold environment that is unsettling.
Now, some will take objection to my opinion on the philosophy. Here's why I say it was sparse. The GITS world has almost no social interactions. While the effects of their increasing mechanizations and the blurring of their humanity is illustrated in narrow settings, a broader approach illustrating how society is reaction to the loss of their humanity would be excellent. How does this effect political and social interactions? No light is shed on that in the least. This story would've been stronger had it taken place during a time of social unrest that could serve as a backdrop of the story. Perhaps a Metropolis (the anime) type setting or even a SAC type environment where they could show the populous at work.
Over all, you have to see this though. The animation is unmatched. The music is unmatched. The major is more badass than ever. Watch this.
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Blindswordsman
NEOPHYTE
Call me Blind, BobaFett, MaddBastard or Brotha SAMM.
Posts: 42
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Post by Blindswordsman on Dec 30, 2004 15:38:50 GMT -5
Peace O. I dig where you're coming from but watch the film again. Look at everything from a symbolist's point of view. Not unlike a Wu-Tang track, Japanese anime is layered with tons of symbols and "what the f*** does that mean" talk.
Break the symbols down.
Classic and vintage automobiles
Dolls
A dog
Religious temples
Towers that scrape the sky
Gulls ( the birds )
The parade
The moss covered tree with moss covered human skulls at it's base ( the very green scenery behind the desk of the chief ) .....look closely!
The men who were killed by dolls
and many other things that I am still ceeing upon each viewing of this great sci-fi anime flick.
Tell me what you find and after I view it again tonight, I'll tell all that I have uncovere as far.
Peace
By the by....the animation of the new APPLESEED film is about to set the new standard in anime. Cee the "APPLESEED" thread.
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Post by Os3y3ris on Dec 30, 2004 17:51:56 GMT -5
I suppose I didn't speak on that aspect as much as I should have. That was one of the high points of the film.
Minor spoilers:
The symbolism was most excellent. It was chilling and illustrated that fear that was mentioned in the beginning of the film. Shots like the mechanical dog, the major at the enterance to the house, the major with the bloody hands, the cops gift to his daughter and lot of the smaller things were really excellent and a tad scary given the context. The symbolism illustrated the coldness of their world as well as the duality of the nature of life in this films philosophy. It really was excellent. The way that the machines resembled animals (the submarine that looked like a fish and the airplane with "feathers'), illustrated that the process was working both ways. Im right there with you on the whole symbolic aspects. I loved that.
With the exception of the dialouge, which was improbable and rather silly, the film was flawless in what it did express. However, the scope of the film was a tad narrow for my taste.
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Post by Os3y3ris on Dec 30, 2004 17:54:02 GMT -5
I'll post an in depth analysis of the various symbolism later, my understanding of the films ultimate philosophy and my opinion of it. This, despite a few flaws was one of the best anime I have ever seen. I just feel it could've been more.
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Post by SAMURAI36 on Jan 1, 2005 17:24:09 GMT -5
I have to say O, that you're REALLY missing alot from this film.
After you post your thoughts, I'll post some of mine as well.
Glad you chose to review this film though. It's really been on my mind as of late.
PEACE
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Post by Os3y3ris on Jan 1, 2005 20:16:38 GMT -5
I wouldn't say that I missed much. And seeing as I haven't stated what I got from it in the first place, niether can you. My issue wasn't with what was there, but what wasn't there. Look at SAC. You get a much broader view and thats what was missing from Innocence. You can try to extrapolate what was seen and apply it to various aspects of life, but from a pure sci-fi standpoint, the film doesn't realize its potential. As the events of the film are used to illustrate its philosophy, which is first brought to light through endless pontificating, the minimalist approach to outside events, character and interactions hurts the film philisophically.
Anyways, I was going to have my analysis tonight, but as I just fixed the subtitles, I havent had chance for a second viewing.
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Post by SAMURAI36 on Jan 2, 2005 12:26:24 GMT -5
PEACE O: You originally stated: All to which my original statement was referring. And again, refer to my original statement. "SAC"??  Along those lines, the very same could possibly be said for the MATRIX trilogy......Concepts and idea(l)s were personified and even acted out via the various characters, thereby minimalizing (and even eliminating) dialogue about said concepts/idea(l)s, which would have otherwise been redundant for the initiated. As for what I got from INNOCENCE, I'm more or less in sync with BLIND, especially since he and I saw it 2-gether. I do wish to view it again, since SHIRO MASAMUNE layers his applications of philosophy quite deeply in his work. Thus, I'm sure I'll get something all the more profound from the film every subsequent time that I view it. PEACE |
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Post by Os3y3ris on Jan 2, 2005 13:31:04 GMT -5
Oh, you took exception to my comments on the dialouge? That just sucked. Tremendously.
Stand Alone Complex.
Thatwasn't what I meant. I meant that wih things being brought to light through actions, the limits of te actions limited the scope of te philosophy. As much as I dislike regarding the Matrix trilogy, they handled the presentation better. They covered all aspects of their world. The Matrx we see, the secret societies within, the real world and the mechanical world.
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