JUSTICE - LUCIFER - THE DEVIL

[SAMURAI36]

Good build, everyone.

SHALAM KEPH:

So white kids into heavy metal, professed satanists, & freemasons, have been rocking the symbol to symbol of justice, balance , light & darkness all along? That's fascinating.

Not that I don't more or less agree with your point, or rather the sentiment made behind it, but you have to remember, that just because the DEVIL(S) has his hands on it, doesn't make it EVIL by nature or origin.

For x-ample, I'm sure you've seen little GOTHIC people in SOHO or the VILLAGE rocking ANKH's and what not.....

Just because they have a twisted affinity for the symbol, doesn't mean that they even have a SMIDGEON of understanding behind it, especially since they pervertedly attempt to apply it to their own twisted and out-of-sync ways.

People have said all sorts of ridiculous shit about the ANKH; anything from it being a symbol of a CULT OF VAMPIRES , to a "fertility symbol for WITCHES".

Not once do I EVER hear these DEVILS make mention of it being a symbol created by and for Ancient AFRICANS, as a symbol for MAN, WOMAN, and CHILD.

The same is very applicable for what BLIND said as well; the SWAT has been around for longer than HITLER's wicked ass, but the masses are never made aware of its true meaning, such as TETRAHEDRON and other spiritual sciences.

Both the INDIANS (NATIVE and HINDU), ASIANS, and AFRICANS used a form of the SWAT symbol, and the sciences it was used to describe was universal amongst them all.

It was only the DEVIL who came along and perverted it, and it hasn't been right since.

However, I tend to lean more 2-wards your understanding of the GOAT, its origins, and its meanings....

Speaking of which:

PEACE TAMAHU:

Looking at it again, it may actually stop at Svadisthana(2nd Chakra); which is definitely a more sexual chakra.

True indeed, you are most correct.......For me, this is a tell-tale clue, into the true nature behind the iconograph.....

Why would a spiritually benevolent and ascendant creature stop at one of the lowest CHAKRAS in human development?

Notice if you will, how there's NOTHING present, between the navel and crown CHAKRAS, to indicate that they are active........What about the HEART CHAKRA??

I don't see illumination within this picture, in the very least.

As KEPH eloquently pointed out:

(remember, it was Alexander that was conquering every dark land from Khemet to Sumeria (Babylon); jacking all ancient knowledge, symbols)

And now that I look more at the image, I see that it is nothing or little more than a perverted version of KHNUMU, the KEMETIAN NETER for fertility and agriculture. :



KHNUMU was the NETER that guarded the NILE, who had the body of a man, and the head of a RAM, with the locks of his hair situated like the LOTUS blossom.....



Sound familiar?

He was also "LORD OVER THE NILE", where it is said that he waded in the waters, and stirred up the sut with his UAS SEPTRE:



I have that very same statue here in my meditation room, sitting juxtaposed to TEHUTI.

So once again, we are pointed right back to the ORIGINAL MAN, for the source and origin of the perverted foolishness.

HOTEPU

[Blindswordsman]

..........................The statue of Khnumu has to be the inspiration for Baphomet. From the lotus to the horns and staff! I love this site!Thanx for those jewels Shah!


Hotep

[SAMURAI36]

PEACE LORD:

True indeed! I've had that statue of the GOD on my desk for more than a year, and it didn't even occur to me, till I glanced up in thought, as I was typing that previous message.

There's no escaping that undeniable truth.

HOTEP

[SAMURAI36]

Also, remember what the ELDERS taught us that EVIL truly is:

"The rebelling against one's own nature, or the nature of the universe."

It's not that these symbols were evil "by nature", it's that they've become evil, through their perversion.

PEACE

[Os3y3ris]

PEACE O

i don't suggest equality amongst people

it goes deeper than that

more like equality between you and EVERYTHING that isn't you

how else could you sleep on a cloud?
or walk on water for that matter?

PEACE

Hmm? Are you trying to remove human relations from the idea of justice?

[SAMURAI36]

Os3y3ris said:

Hmm? Are you trying to remove human relations from the idea of justice?

No, I think he's saying the the concepts of JUSTICE and EQUALITY are ones that transcend the human equation.

I asked you before, and you never answered (or even acknowledged, for that matter):

When a LION strikes down a ZEBRA in the jungle, is that justice for the LION, or injustice for the ZEBRA? Are you sad for the ZEBRA, or happy for the LION?

OR, if the ZEBRA gets away instead, whom are you then happy or sad for? Where does the justice or lack of it fall?

That's what LIGHTHOUSE was alluding to in his statement: there are laws in effect--UNIVERSAL ones--that operate far outside of what we think of those laws.

And those laws are all WISE, RIGHT and X-ACT.

It's our perceptions of those laws that may or may not be.

PEACE

[Os3y3ris]

No, I think he's saying the the concepts of JUSTICE and EQUALITY are ones that transcend the human equation.

Justice does not, unless you consider deities.

When a LION strikes down a ZEBRA in the jungle, is that justice for the LION, or injustice for the ZEBRA? Are you sad for the ZEBRA, or happy for the LION?

There are lions and zebra in the jungle? Anyways, its not justice. It's not injust either. It just is. The lion did what it had to and the zebra was just unlucky, unskilled or whatever.

OR, if the ZEBRA gets away instead, whom are you then happy or sad for? Where does the justice or lack of it fall?

The zebra did what it had to, just like the lion.

That's what LIGHTHOUSE was alluding to in his statement: there are laws in effect--UNIVERSAL ones--that operate far outside of what we think of those laws.

And those laws are all WISE, RIGHT and X-ACT.

No. Justice is a human concept. Well, some animals have a sense of it as well, but nothing else in the universe cares.

It's our perceptions of those laws that may or may not be.

And the law concerning justice would be...?

[SAMURAI36]

PEACE O:

Justice does not, unless you consider deities.

Nope.

You do realize that not all spiritual systems (like BUDDHISM, for x-ample) necessarily incorporate the concept of a designated diety, yes?

That's why it's emphatically important to do the knowledge on the various religions (especially the more ancient and obscure ones) from an abstract perspective, and not just from a referential one (assuming you've done that to begin with).

You're not seeing the whole picture otherwise.

There are lions and zebra in the jungle? Anyways, its not justice. It's not injust either. It just is. The lion did what it had to and the zebra was just unlucky, unskilled or whatever.

Facetiousness aside, damn O, I can't believe that this is the be-all of your perspective.

This ties intrinsically to what I was trying to convey in the #7 thread, regarding employing an abstract modality into your way of thinking.

You're doing yourself (and the world) a disservice otherwise. I can't stress that enough.

No. Justice is a human concept. Well, some animals have a sense of it as well, but nothing else in the universe cares.

What can I do/say to get you to understand that the x-sistence of a thing (be it person, place, or idea) transcends our (HUMANS) perception of it?

And the law concerning justice would be...?

You're not listening, O.

It's not about the concept, but rather our PERCEPTION of it. Concepts, along with everything else in x-sistence, will remain in x-sistence, whether we acknowledge that x-sistence or not.

Said concepts only become all the more surreal, once we align our perceptions to be absolutely in-tune with them.

[SAMURAI36]

PEACE TAMAHU:

What do you think about the symbolism concerning this?

I think this very instance is a textbook x-ample of why I continuously emphasize how the "teachings" of people like WEOR, BLAVATSKY, etc are not only incorrect, but potentially dangerous.......And that you should drop these "middle men", and deal with the sciences at the source.

These people can't even spiritually tie their shoe, let alone decipher and understand arcane and esoteric high sciences from ancient cultures.

Here's the proof:

Question: Why are many Gnostic students frightened of the card 15 of the Tarot? Why is the Devil on this card, the Typhon Baphomet, represented with breasts, as if he was also androgynous?

The very Q in this discourse is wrong from the start, and thus leads the reader down the path to nothing but wrong answers.

Who asked that question, by the way? It sounds like those fake FAQ sessions that authors set up for themselves, to proprogate only the info that they wish to convey.

Anyways, KHNUMU, who is plainly pictured here, is NOT TYPHOON.

TYPHOON is the Western name given to SET (SATAN), because he is referred to as the "STORM BRINGER" in the PERT EM HERU.

Not a single time is the image of the "DEVIL" present on that card.

The fact that WEOR or whomever sought not to correct this, yet led the reader down an incorrect path, speaks defeaningly about his own motives.

I do not know why people judge the Typhon Baphomet so badly. However, the Gnostics never ignore that phrase which says: "I believe in the Mystery of the Baphomet and of Abraxas."

First, before we proceed further.......WHO THE FUCK IS "BAPHOMET"

I see KHNUMU there, albeit a perverted version of him.

These ass-clowns flash KEMETIC and other ancient images at the masses, all the while misleading the masses about the origins and meanings of these images, thereby leading them further and further away from the truth.

[Card 15 of the Tarot (the "Devil") is profoundly significant. Remember that it is found after cards 13 & 14. Unquestionably, the 13 corresponds to the psychological death of "myself," of "yourself," of the Ego. Undoubtedly, card 14 speaks to us of the Temperance, the Chastity, and the Perfection, which results from the death of the Ego. After comes the 15, which corresponds inevitably to the Primordial Androgyny, to the Mystery of Baphomet and of Abraxas, to the Devil (this last word is something which horrifies devout(fanatical) people, but for the sage, the wisdom it contains something extraordinary).

Card #'s 13 and 14 are not present here for me to make an accurate assessment on this.......However, I will say that since his statements about Card #15 are as wrong as a thong on a fat broad, I then have no reason to place stock in the assessements of any other cards.

NOTE: Let's NEVER confuse these "TAROT" cards, with the ORACLE of the MESUSH METUT.

I emphasize that you're dealing with a watered down and perverted version of the latter.

In the Cathedral of Notre-Dame in Paris, a raven is seen. He looks fixedly towards the corner of the Temple, towards that place where one finds the small Corner Stone, the Master Stone, the Stone of Truth. This stone has a form, yes, terrible, with horns, which horrify: The Devil (terror of many pseudo-esotericists and pseudo-occultists). The medieval Alchemists said: "Burn your books and whiten the brass."

Why does the black raven look to the Devil? Because we must die within ourselves, because it is necessary to disintegrate the "inhuman elements" that we carry within our psyche. It is urgent to reduce them to ashes, to cosmic dust. This is how we will be able to "whiten the brass." This brass or copper is represented in the Morning Star. You already know with complete clarity that one day, not long ago, this Morning Star was "Lucifer," the "Maker of Light."

WTF does this have to do with KHNUMU??

Does anyone else here besides me, take notice to this pointless tangent of WEOR's here??

He's doing nothing but leading you around your elbow to get to your ass (spiritually speaking, of course).

THIS IS NOT KNOWLEDGE.....It's only TRICKNOWLEDGE.

He is Prometheus (chained to the hard rock of sex); Prometheus who suffered horribly and whose entrails were devoured by a vulture. Yes, the Vulture’s Desire, he is tied to existence. We must have compassion for this particular Intimate Devil, which we have within. To whiten him, then, is urgent (my beloved brothers and sisters who read this), it is necessary that we make him resplendent.

Oh, so now remotely (un)related ideas are being thrown into the mix, in attempts to validate his perspective, eh?

What does PROMETHEUS have to do with KHNUMU??

And why precisely is the VULTURE being mentioned? The VULTURE (NEKHEBET) GODDESS represents the rememberance of ancestry. There is no "desire" involved with here.

Once again, another perversion.

I can't see why there is a motive, then, to brand (this Divine Androgyny) as "something despicable." The card 15 of the Tarot appears after the 13th (which is the Death of the Ego, of the "I," of "myself") and after the 14th (the man who has acquired Temperance, Perfection). So then, this card 15 is that which again becomes resplendent: it is the Divine Androgyny; it is the Devil transformed into Lucifer, it is the "Whitened Brass."

LMAO......

So in otherwords, WEOR is saying:

"I don't have a CLUE as to what KHNUMU is, and how he (and yes, it's a HE; KHNUMU is NOT Androgynous) is juxtaposed to the TRUE DEVIL, which is SET........I just have so much fun talking out of my ass, like a typical DEVIL that doesn't have a clue about the ORIGINAL MAN's sciences."



I implore people to stay away from this garbage, that is no more sound that the knuckle-head rantings of YORK and ICKE.

[Os3y3ris]

Sam, I understand what you're saying regarding the concept of justice. HOWEVER, you have yet to explain what justice is. What is the nature of this concept? I say it's a type of measured retaliation reliant on choice, balancing vengeance and mercy. But can human's apply this? No. We can try, but justice alludes us, requiring knowledge of the future. We can guess right, but can you really say an action is just?

[SAMURAI36]

Os3y3ris said:

Sam, I understand what you're saying regarding the concept of justice. HOWEVER, you have yet to explain what justice is. What is the nature of this concept? I say it's a type of measured retaliation reliant on choice, balancing vengeance and mercy. But can human's apply this? No. We can try, but justice alludes us, requiring knowledge of the future. We can guess right, but can you really say an action is just?

OK, I understand what you're asking now.....

I'll put up a quote regarding what JUSTICE is, both from and ISLAMIC (5% in particular) as well as KEMETIC perspective soon, so stay tuned for that.

PEACE

[Os3y3ris]

Sounds good.

[SAMURAI36]

PEACE TAMAHU:

First, let me say that this has turned into an x-cellent build. This seems to touch on many of the concepts that you and I spoke on, a while back in private.

It's good to see that we now have a public medium through which to further the discourse.

This 'Samael Aun Weor' does mention that the ANKH and Cross symbolize the Lingam-Yoni connection: Man + Woman = Child.

Yes, but to what end?

And for the record, I don't necessarily agree that "MAN + WOMAN = CHILD".......

The perspective I am more partial to is MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD.........As the "CHILD" state of x-sistence x-sists simultaneously to the MASCULINE and FEMININE states.

I'll build more on that later (perhaps in another thread).

And Hitler was interested in Ancient Knowledge. That's why all these movies show how the Nazis went on expeditions to places like Tibet.

And see, that's the thing for me.......It seems that WEOR and others apply the same approach to these concepts as HITLER did.......Bouncing around from thought to thought, missing the bigger picture, leaving key aspects of the TRUTH out, and ultimately using it as a means to destructive and/or detrimental ends.

I have yet to glean anything holistically worthwhile from that "WHO IS THE DEVIL Q & A" from him.

I've heard that the word "Surah" as in the verses of the Qur'an, have a relation to this.

Actually, SURAHS correspond to the CHAPTERS, and AYATS refer to the verses. Just a little FYI

Well, despite shortcomings he may have; what he has to offer is superlative to what Blavatsky taught.

TAMAHU, if you don't mind me saying so, this is quite the dangerous mindstate to adopt upon oneself....

That whole "defend the indefensible" idea(l) can unltimately lead to a stunting of one's spiritual growth.

That WEOR is "superlative" to BLAVATSKY, in the overall scheme of things, is not really saying much....

In fact, it's like saying "My 80 year grand mother is superlative at MUAY THAI (I'm sure O will get a kick out of that one, LOL), than my 8 day old newborn son is......"

Even within the confines of the info from him that you posted, WEOR's works have more holes in it, than a VEGAS whore's uniform.

I'm curious though; how much of what I had stated in my original critique of it, had already come to your own mine, prior to me saying anything?

He also corrects some of the teachings of Theosophy and some other Rosicrucians in his writings. As far as I know, he was only a Theosophist as a young man.

This reminds me of an old KRS-ONE verse:

"You were put here to protect us, but who protects us from YOU"?

Similarly, it's interesting that the person going around "correcting" others, needs just as much correcting, if not moreso, of his own works.

His lack of historical, cultural, and even spiritual understanding of the concepts in question (SET/TYPHON, KHNUMU, etc), in lieu of talking over said ignorance with eloquent spiritualism is the prime reason why these "new age" dudes are rarely, if ever taken seriously, even when they might provide some relevant info.

He formed a whole perspective around a FALSE NOTION (that KHNUMU is SET), and he had YET to clarify any TRUE understanding regarding the "DEVIL".........That is the dangerousness that I spoke about; this is done in virtually EVERY spiritual system that the masses have been x-posed to, all throughout history.

And the masses are no better for it as a result.

And I don't see him as the 'end all' to spiritual matters by any means. I'm not about to take anything on face-value either. I do put claims of different teachers and Esoterists to the test.

Understood.

His teachings are however, a chamber of knowledge that I'm studying right now. I'll explain why later.....

Please do, as I remain painfully at a loss as to why you continue to entertain the ideas of such people.

Speaking of doing the knowledge on Kemetic spirituality; I'm reading Muata Ashby's "Egyptian Mysteries: Shetaut Neter" and in it he says that the Nubians worshipped AMEN as a Ram-Headed God, and then a picture that appers to be KHNUMU is shown.

What's the relation?

KHNUMU was originally one of AMEN's forms......

With that, it's also important to understand, that there were 2 main theologies in KEMET: the ANUNIAN, and the AUSARIAN.

You (and others) will sometimes take notice that there will be some discrepancies between the teachings of RA UN NEFER AMEN and MUATA ASHBY, and that is because AMEN subscribes to the latter theology, and ASHBY to the former.

I'm looking into this, but I digress for right now; as Baphomet does seem to be a nonsensical blending of SET, KHNUMU and some other things.

I agree.......So then, that means that "BAPHOMET" is then nothing more than a perverted amalgam of various ideas......

It seems then, that WEOR (and qutie a few of his ) are doing nothing more than playing YA'QUB, by splicing grafting several concepts to make a new "DEVIL" (pun intended).

In a word: "DANGEROUS".

I know there's a difference between the Mesush Metut Oracle and the Tarot; but is the latter a perversion of the former period?

In a word: YES.

Let me ask you a question: your lack of x-perience and x-posure notwithstanding, do you doubt the credibility of the ORACLE, in either potency or accuracy??

Can the same be said of this TAROT-- especially in consideration of this "BAPHOMET/TYPHON/KHNUMU" non-sense?

If one card is wrong, how can the rest be even remotely correct? You and I both know, that the universe does not work that way, and neither does the ORACLE, for that matter.

Speaking of which:

His interpretation of the said Tarot cards makes sense to me, at least without the association of KHNUMU with Typhon(SET).

I'm truly curious as to how you are able to come to such a conclusion, and what you (are attempting to) use to sustain it.

The cards, be they TAROT or ORACLE, are based primarily upon their symbology, because that is what the ORIGINAL (again, pun intended) creators--be it the KEMAU, SUMERIANS, HOPI INDIANS, KAOORI, etc.-- intended as the driving mechanic to propel the idea.

If even ONE of these symbols is faulty, then the whole system is bound to be such as well, because the whole concept is systematic.

More over, how are you able to glean any "sense" or logic from his interpretation, sans the association of the diety represented, when the very nature and function of the cards are contingent upon that association?

Please note, that both words "TAROT" and "ORACLE" are singular and not plural (technically they are both a plural singularity), and they are so for a reason.

They work along the same means as the QABALAH, or the ZODIAC, or even the human body.

Are you going to be able to successfully run a long distance marathon, if there is something wrong with your spine?

He gives PRACTICES(some of which I'll post) that help one to awaken consciousness and internally verify teachings; while the other said "men" give nothing but a bunch of theories, that do nothing more than satisfy the intellect of those who are willing to believe too quickly. The latter two offer next to NOTHING regarding the death of the ego and the maintaining of Brahmacharya.

This to me. is the difference between those who lead the masses to HELL intentionally, and those who lead them to HELL with the best of intentions.

How is either better than the other?

[SAMURAI36]

This whole Baphomet thing may not be a good example of some of the things he teaches, but if I hadn't come to the knowledge of the said Gnostic teachings; I would probably still be engaging in bad habits thinking that I'm advancing on The Path, while in reality all I would be doing is awakening intellect, without any real internal progress.

TAMAHU, I've been observing your development--albeit from afar--since I've come to know you (you should know by now, that NOTHING in my cypher goes unnoticed )......

There has been far too much information passing through your hands and eyes for such a perspective to be spoken as an inevitability.

I will tell you now, as I continue to tell you and others.

ELIMINATE THE MIDDLE MEN, AND GO STRAIGHT TO THE SOURCE.

Trust me, you'll thank me for it later.

It is this western world that instructs us to "move backwards in life; this is the only culture that reads "ass-backwards", and then we wonder why we don't retain but about 1/5 of what we read

Similarly, instead of starting at the source, and working our way from the past to the present, we opt instead to go around our elbows to get to our asses.

Do the knowledge on the SOURCE, and you'll quickly see WEOR, CROWLEY, BLAVAT, ICKE, YORK, AURIEL, and countless others as the FRAUDS that they are.

Otherwise, you are only reading the rantings of a bunch of JOHNNY-COME-LATELY's, who are trying to pass themselves off as the best SNAKE-CHARMERS in town.

Despite having an interest in the doctrine of the Nation of Islam and Nation of Gods and Earths, I've never read any of Elijah Muhammad's books either; and would like to, in conjuction with meditation(so I can utilize the right hemisphere ).

True indeed.

I see truth in the teachings of all these Initiates and Adepts; it's just that I haven't come to a complete system in any one doctrine. That's why I study ALL.

There is a difference in studying "ALL", and acknowledging the SOURCE.

Even the "ALL" has a source.....It's interesting that none of the above ASS-CLOWNS ever bear witness to just what that is.

What I'm seeking is a complete synthesis, because it seems that just about everyone has an alterior motive. It seems that everyone wants to withhold one thing or add another, and put a copyright on truth.

The only thing that owns such a copyright on the truth, is that which created it to begin with.

I guarantee you, that you will not find that with any of the previously mentioned people.

Have you ever taken notice to how and why I can so casually, yet confidently dismiss the lot of them?

Have you ever stopped to think, that perhaps there is something(s) that I know, that these people (along with perhaps yourself) don't know?

And no, I'm not talking about just some "fuck them WHITE DEVILS" shit either.

Although, if I do give up this lonely quest of finding a complete synthesis; I may just join a Tibetan Monastery, because from what I've learned thus far; the school of Vajrayana Buddhism may be the most complete set of spiritual teachings that exist within one single system.

Though that might be a good move, please understand that there is nothing that can be obtained from that system, that can't be obtained from someone/where else.

The only place that the MONASTERY will take you, is the same place that the MESUSH METUT will take you....Or that the WAY OF THE FEATHER will take you.....or that the DREAM TIME will take you......

Back to the SOURCE.

Due to Samael Aun Weor's writings, I've also been able to find out quite a bit more about the Esoterum of the Tibetan Schools; which will aid in my decision as whether or not to join a Tibetan Temple that has recently opened here in Salt Lake City. I'll start a thread about this with my thoughts on it soon.

Was this info that you now have, otherwise unattainable by any other means?

By all means, don't get caught up in the illusion, that WEOR (or fill in the blank "NAME") did you some sort of favor (and despite what you might think, it is VERY easy to think that)........Instead, it is YOU who is doing him the favor.

But I digress on the debate about whether the said form of Gnosticism is garbage or not.

The operative term here is "FORM OF GNOSTICISM".

I can't stress enough, the danger of dealing with the "FORMS" (grafted versions) of things, rather than the thing (and the SOURCE) itself.

Otherwise, you are dealing with what is spoken of in the 33RD degree (how ironic ) of the 1-40 in the LESSONS.

A problem I have with many Gurus, Teachers, "Adepts", etc. is that they seem to think that getting to the root of the truth on sexuality is taboo or something. And when they do, it's usually a degenerated form.

Ironic, ain't it?? Ever stop to wonder why these people can NEVER seem to get past that CHAKRA??

The saving of the sexual energy as to be able to destroy lust and other egos, is an unfortunately overlooked important aspect of many doctrines. It may be that in times-past, that these teachings were best kept secret for Higher Initiates, but I can agree that this has to change; because degeneration seems to be getting worse and more worse.

It depends on which doctrines--and the cultures from whence they were derived--that you are speaking about.

Neither the KEMAU, HINDUS, KAOORI, and numerous others shirked this knowledge, as it related ot the greater whole.

MAN, WOMAN, AND CHILD, remember?

Anyway; I'll have to start a thread on Samael Aun Weor and his wife, the VM Litelantes; where we can discuss the pros and cons of their teachings.

And I recently copied and pasted those PM's about Theosophy and would still like to build on that; and I'll give you more info about the said 'Gnosis', if you still want to discuss this via PMs.

No doubt; as you can see, I'm quite eager to discuss this, and out in the open no less.....

I think we are in a better climate, that the full potential of such a conversation can be realized, by all who view and/or partake in it.

Getting back to the point of this thread; what is your interpretation of "Lucifer"?

Didn't you once mention that the concept comes from AUSAR?

Ausar represents Man's Higher Nature and Set represents Man's Lower nature correct?

Yes, I did, and still do state that "LUCIFER" in concept, is derived from AUSAR.

But that is NOT the same as saying that LUCIFER = AUSAR.

That's like saying GOD = DEVIL, simply because the latter came from the former.

AUSAR is the elder brother of SET......The elder's infinity supercedes the younger's temporality.......The elder's omnipotence supercedes the younger's impotence.

In the meantime, just like with the concept of "BAPHOMET" and related ideas, I'm still searching for that concrete correlation between "LUCIFER" and the other mentioned dieties....

Meaning, what is the etymological origin of this name? Is it GREEK? LATIN?

Contrary to what HASHASH tried to say a while back, etymology is gravely important in understanding the origin of various concepts.

PEACE

[UniverseSeven]

P+E(AC)=E

The origin of the symbols of Justice and Liberty are intertwined. Their origin extends from the point of view that the Serpent/Lucifer/Iblis liberated man from God by imparting upon man knowledge that God had hidden from his creation. This view is preserved in modern Theosophy, Freemasonry, Gnosticism etc... i.e. Luciferianism is much more clever than simple satanism. It is complex.

The native interpretations are the basis for Theosophy, Freemasonry, and Gnosticism attained after Alexander conquered Egypt. Examine...


Ra

Patron of: the sun, heaven, kingship, power, light.

Appearance: a pharaoh wearing the sun disk on his head.

Description: Ra was the almost universally-worshipped king of the gods and all-father of creation. A sun god, he was said to command the chariot that rode across the sky during the day. A king, he was the patron of the pharaoh. Ra is the most central god of the Egyptian pantheon.

Ra's position in the pantheon is unusual. He is the only god, apart from Osiris, who is definitely said to be not on the earth. Ra, it is said, is an aging god, still powerful, but too old to deal with his children any longer, so he has gone exclusively to the sky to watch over the world. Horus rules over the earth and the gods in his stead, demonstrating the divine right of kingship.

Worship: Worshipped widely throughout Egypt, Ra was the principal sun god for centuries.

Variants:

Amun-Ra
Composite deity with Amun (starting around the XI Dynasty), creator of the universe, worshipped primarily at Thebes.

Ra-Atum/Atum-Ra
A composite deity with Atum. The primordial creative force combined with the ruler of the gods. In this form, Ra also symbolized the setting sun and its journey through the underworld to its rising in the east.

Jesus is associated with Osiris


Osiris

Other Names: Oser, Aser, Asar, Usire

Patron of: the Underworld, the dead, past Pharaohs, agriculture (old form), fertility (old form).

Appearance: In his original form, a green-skinned man dressed in the raiment of a pharaoh. Following the Legend of Osiris, he appears as a green-skinned man in the form of a mummified pharaoh. He is often depicted wearing the atef crown with a pair of ram horns at its base.

Description: Throughout the height of Egyptian civilization, Osiris was the primary deity. In power, he was second only his father, Ra, and was the leader of the gods on earth. He was the husband of Isis and the father of Horus (and a number of other gods in some stories). Osiris resided in the underworld as the lord of the dead, as after being killed by Set, even though he was a god, he could no longer dwell in the land of the living.

After Osiris was killed, Isis resurrected him with the Ritual of Life, which was later given to the Egyptians so that they could give eternal life to all their dead. The spells and rituals cast by Isis, plus many others given to the people by the gods over the centuries, were collected into The Book of Going Forth by Day, colloquially known as The Book of the Dead.

In the underworld, Osiris sits on a great throne, where he is praised by the souls of the just. All those who pass the tests of the underworld become worthy to enter The Blessed Land, that part of the underworld that is like the land of the living, but without sorrow or pain. In some texts, in addition to the Judging of the Heart, Osiris passes final judgment over the dead, acting in this capacity as an Egyptian version of Radamanthus.

There is an interesting parallel between Osiris, a fertility/agriculture god, and the Greek Persephone, an agriculture goddess. Both end up in the underworld through treachery and both are kept there by "legal loopholes" in the laws of the gods. Persephone remains in the underworld for half a year because she tasted the food of the dead. Osiris remains in the underworld because Ma'at dictates that the dead, even dead gods, may not return to the land of the living.

Worship: Worshipped widely throughout all of Egypt, and his cult center was Abydos.


Horus

Other Names: Heru, Hor, Harendotes/Har-nedj-itef (Horus the Avenger), Har-Pa-Neb-Taui (Horus Lord of the Two Lands)

Patron of: the living Pharaoh, rulers, law, war, young men, light, the sun, many others depending on the particular variant.

Appearance: His most common form is that of falcon-headed man, but he is also shown as a falcon, a lion with the head of a falcon, or a sphinx. He is also shown as a falcon resting on the neck of the pharaoh, spreading his wings to either side of the pharaoh's head and whispering guidance in his ear.

Description: It is nearly impossible to distinguish a "true" Horus from all his many forms. In fact, Horus is mostly a general term for a great number of falcon gods, some of which were worshipped all over Egypt, others simply had local cults. Yet in all of his forms he is regarded as the prince of the gods and the specific patron of the living ruler.

The worship of Horus was brought from the outside by neighboring tribes who invaded and then settled into Egypt. He was their god of war, but was quickly absorbed into the state religion, first as a son of Ra, then changing to become the son of Osiris. He was the protector and guide to the pharaoh and later pharaohs were believed to be his avatar on earth. Horus was also the patron of young men and the ideal of the dutiful son who grows up to become a just man.

The most popular story of Horus is the one in which he grows to manhood to avenge the death of his father Osiris by battling against his cruel uncle Set. In many writings, he is said to continue to battle Set daily to ensure the safety of the world.

Worship: Worshipped widely throughout all of Egypt, even his variant forms were widespread.


Set
Other Names: Seth, Sutekh

Patron of: winds, storms, chaos, evil, darkness, strength, war, conflict, Upper Egypt.

Appearance: A man with the head of a jackal-like animal. In depictions of his battle with Horus he is often shown as a black pig or hippopotamus. Sometimes he is shown as a crocodile, perhaps a combination of him and the original god of evil, Apep. He is also shown as a man with red hair and eyes, or wearing a red mantle, the Egyptians believing that bright red was a color of evil.

Description: In early times Set was worshipped as the god of wind and the desert storms, and prayed to that he would grant the strength of the storms to his followers. Although he was always a dark and moody god, he was believed to be the ally of his brother and sister, Osiris and Isis, the counterpart to his sister-wife Nephthys, and the defender of their father, Ra.

But somewhere along the line the view of Set changed. He became a god of evil, in eternal conflict with the gods of light, and especially with Horus, the son of Osiris. Set became identified with his former enemy, the serpent Apep. By the XXVI Dynasty, Set was the major antagonist and embodiment of evil to the Egyptians. Why this change came about is unknown, but it is thought that some time after the unification of Egypt, the religion of Set fell into disfavor with the state religion, the worship of Ra and Osiris. It may be that there was open rebellion against the pharaoh Narmer (Menes) who unified Egypt under his rule, the rebellion failed and their beliefs were effectively quashed. Victors are known to rewrite history, it may be that they also rewrote the religion. It is an interesting idea to think that the struggle for the control of Egypt might have found its way into their core beliefs.

In the Legend of Osiris, Set kills Osiris and scatters his body, then claims the throne of the gods for his own. He is later struck down by Horus, the son of Osiris, who restores order to the world and sets up the pharaohs as the guardians of Maat. Set and Horus continue to battle for control of the world, setting up an epic conflict of good versus evil.

Worship: Not really worshipped after becoming a god of evil, but his religion was the major one for Upper Egypt until after the unification.

-certainly Lucifer and Satan are associated with Set. Theosophist, Freemasons and Gnostics believe Lucifer(Serpent) is God and God is the negative force. This would correspond with Sets rebellion i.e murder of Osiris, Ra's Viceroy on Earth.

In come Alexander, the horned one. Through the destruction of Egypt the knowledge could be suppressed and re-written this is where the societies find their origins.

In Ezekial he sees one beast with four faces they are that of a lion, a bull (ram), a man (human face) and an eagle(phoenix). These are the four wicked empires of Babylon(Lion), Greece(Bull), Rome(Man) and America (Eagle/Phoenix). These empires arrive through a twisting of the original knowledge, and maintaining it throughout history.

Theosophy, Freemasonry, and Gnosticism, Order of the Dragon etc... are all serpent/sun aligned cults who worship Lucifer as god at the most "enlightened" levels. It is commonly called Luciferianism and is the quagmire of moral relativism. The Baphomet, Molech, Quetzacoatl (feathered serpent) Amaruca all tie in here, as well as Thoth who made the serpent connections clear. In Revelation the antichrist receives his power through the Dragon by which he deceives 85% of the Earth. He is the light of the world and the saviour of mankind. Be wary of those who take oaths to other gods, and conspire in darkness so that their works may not be revealed by day.

If I was not mistaken I would think some of you are flirting with the old serpent (worrisome). It's ok to read the likes of Blavatsky, Pike and Crowley etc...and others to KNOW and to confirm. Theosophy is related to eugenics and planned parenthood.

Anyways... this is a very deep rabbit hole. But isn't everything?

www.thevesselofgod.com/theluciferianlegacy.html

How they view it.... www.geocities.com/sekhemu/Baphomet.html

www.geocities.com/digital3v14/texts/modluc.html

good thread

P+E(AC)=E