THE BIBLE

[Healthy Merking]

Jun 24, 2009 15:24:54 GMT -5 SAMURAI36 said:

It is my hope to address everyone here in this thread, but I would like to begin with Max Mercury’s statements initially… (BTW, I can’t keep up with all your name changes, LOL!!)

hm -

i think this is the first time i ever changed it -


unless my memory is not doing its job -

[SAMURAI36]

Jun 24, 2009 18:22:27 GMT -5 Dr. D-Resperatation said:

There is a lot of violence in the Bible, but this is an accurate reprensntation of the the world, and if you look at it, the Bible puts the violence of the world into a perspective in that it shows the progresion from the garden of eden to the fall of man, to the murdur of kane and able, to the jewish religion, i.e. comandments faith and social order, to redemption in christ.

This reasoning is inductive, rather than deductive.

Meaning, the Bible is not an accurate representation of the world, the world is actually an accurate representation of the Bible.

As I stated previously, the Bible is rife with not only violence, and mythological murder (that Cain and Able non-sense, which BTW, is racist as fuck), but acts of viscious genocide.

Not saying this is the perfect explanation of the world, just saying the "unfavorable" aspects of the bible may be there for a reason.

Yes, I agree, but not necessarily for the reasons that you might be thinking.

The Bible is violent, racist, misogynist, etc merely because the people it was written for, about, and by are and were that way.

BTW, I'm not the typical Black man that tries to find aspects of Afrocentricity in the Bible: "Jesus was Black" and whatnot. Far as I'm concerned, calling Jesus Black, is like calling the Easter Bunny Black. The so-called Jews (aka, Hyksos, aka Hurrians, aka Hittites, aka Hapiru, aka Habbatu) are and were always Eurasians, but that's another discussion.

Example, God ordering Abraham to kill his child. Makes God out to be a wack job, and Abraham out to be a schizo, but it teaches that one has to be, "the father and the lord of the sword" perhaps, or perfectly faithful and compleatly submissive to God even to the point of recognizing the limits of your own understaning and attachments to things of this world.

If that's the logic, then feel free to have at it. If we were talking about any other book, we would not operate from the justifying postulation, but would rip the pages out of said book, and start wiping our asses with it.

"God" in the Bible has ordered the rape of women, the slaughter of babies, and the genocide of Blacks, for reasons as trite as "because she was married to a non-believer". And I'm not talking 1 or 2 "Sunday School" examples, the likes of Abraham sacrificing his son, either. I'm prepared to site dozens, and even hundreds of examples.

But, Tamahu, you didnt answer my whole question, which is why does El Eloh, from Lost Children of Babylon refer to

"the disagreable complex mathamatics of the hebrew bible"?

As this would imply that although the order of the bible is disagreable it is nonetheless mathamatics.

I believe you would possibly understand such a term as "disagreeble complex matamatics" in that it seems to be an exact, spitualy harmonious, "rightous" pronounciation.

Not to speak for TAMAHU, but I'd surmise that the meaning from this, is that they (LCOB) see the issues with the Bible, and perhaps have struggled with it in their own spiritual development.

HOTEPU

[Tamahu]

Jun 24, 2009 18:22:27 GMT -5 Dr. D-Resperatation said:

There is a lot of violence in the Bible, but this is an accurate reprensntation of the the world, and if you look at it, the Bible puts the violence of the world into a perspective in that it shows the progresion from the garden of eden to the fall of man, to the murdur of kane and able, to the jewish religion, i.e. comandments faith and social order, to redemption in christ. Not saying this is the perfect explanation of the world, just saying the "unfavorable" aspects of the bible may be there for a reason. Example, God ordering Abraham to kill his child. Makes God out to be a wack job, and Abraham out to be a schizo, but it teaches that one has to be, "the father and the lord of the sword" perhaps, or perfectly faithful and compleatly submissive to God even to the point of recognizing the limits of your own understaning and attachments to things of this world.

Imagine that someone(the Demiurge) makes up a game, and writes a rule book("the Bible") for this game. And the rule book is written in code so that only those who know the "code" are able to even really know the rules of the game. How is one supposed to win this "game" if they don't know the rules, even though they think they know them because they read the rule book and pray about it without having the mathematics and rituals designed to unlock the meanings of the rules?

I've studied the writings of Initiates(whether said Initiates have all of the keys or just some of them) enough to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Torah, Talmud, Bahir, Sepher Yetzirah, Zohar, Injiyl(NT), etc.; are all based on the Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge both of which precede anything Hebrew.

To me 'the Bible' shows the tyrannical nature of the Demiurge and the violence perpetuated by it's karmic eye-for-an-eye system that it has set up. Now the Christian teachings seem to show a more 'forgiving' side of the Demiurge where following a bunch of outdated commandments is seemingly no longer necesssary(ironically the New Testament threatens us with eternal hell-fire, while the Old Testament doesn't really have a concept of eternal hell. It's just that the NT doesn't have stories of genocide(aside from the Book of Revelation perhaps) like the OT does.)

As I've said, the Injiyl(NT) is written in Kabbalistic code for the Initiated only:

"He(Yeshua) answered and said unto them: Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to them it is not given."

To see more of the context of this look up Matthew 13:10-17. Obviously it is for the Initiated only. The above passage doesn't simply mean that those who believe and pray about it will receive the meaning. Almost all Christians pray, right? Well if all one has to do to get the meaning of it is to believe and pray, then everybody who prayed about it would have gotten the meaning already, and there wouldn't have been all these genocides happening all over in the name of "Jesus". Unless of course "the Bible" was actually meant to perpetuate violence...

This all sounds very grim and morbid I know, but the bright side is that there may be a way to take oneself out of the Demiurge's "game" altogether(or at least play by one's own 'rules' more), instead of trying to win it by playing by the Demiurge's rules, rules that can only be followed by the 'elect' who even know exactly what the rules are anyway.

And I'm not saying that one should avoid forms of Initiation just because they're elite(ist). Just be careful who you associate with, and what vows and oaths you take.

But, Tamahu, you didnt answer my whole question, which is why does El Eloh, from Lost Children of Babylon refer to

"the disagreable complex mathamatics of the hebrew bible"?

As this would imply that although the order of the bible is disagreable it is nonetheless mathamatics.


I believe you would possibly understand such a term as "disagreeble complex matamatics" in that it seems to be an exact, spitualy harmonious, "rightous" pronounciation.

Exactly! That's why I posted a link the The Fetch's Illuminatus Observer. His whole website is practically dedicated to the deciphering of "the disagreable complex mathamatics of the hebrew bible" and its Zionist Kabbalah agenda.

[Tamahu]

Jun 24, 2009 19:43:30 GMT -5 SAMURAI36 said:

PEACE:

It should be made known, that much of the NOI theology came from Masonry, especially since many of the hierarchy (including Elijah) were at one time Masons.

Further, I've come in contact with many 5%er's who were/are Masons, and some of them have attested that Clarence 13X was at least at one time, a Mason himself.

They also attest that the 120 is structured very similarly to how the Masons structure their Q&A's.

Peace Samurai!

I figured that Clarence 13X would also have been a Mason, as was Shariff Drew Ali.

In the booklet that came with Lord Jamar's 5% album, there's a history of the Nation of Gods and Earths in it, and at the end it seems to imply that Father Allah Clarence 13X divulged to his students something in regard to the nature of Sexual Magic between Woman and Man. Or perhaps I could be projecting....

Anyway, do you agree with the following definition of Masonry VS Freemasonry?

www.immortalbirth.com/preview.html

Jun 24, 2009 20:58:14 GMT -5 SAMURAI36 said:

BTW, I'm not the typical Black man that tries to find aspects of Afrocentricity in the Bible: "Jesus was Black" and whatnot. Far as I'm concerned, calling Jesus Black, is like calling the Easter Bunny Black.

lol

The so-called Jews (aka, Hyksos, aka Hurrians, aka Hittites, aka Hapiru, aka Habbatu) are and were always Eurasians, but that's another discussion.

Interesting. Remember when I was telling you about some of the discussions I participated in online with God-Body/Knowledge, where he said that Yakub is YHVH and that YHVH is Shiva, and that Judaism is based on Brahmanism just as much as it is anything Khemetian, or 'Chaldean', etc.(and, as I'm sure you know, Brahmanism is based on pre-Gautama-Sakyamuni Buddhism). Unfortunately Blackwebportal at one time deleted all the threads there, and then started fresh, therefore all of God-Body/Knowledge's posts are gone. I can't find cached ones on Google either.

This also ties into the Sakyamuni form of Buddhism, Kalachakra(Wheel of Shiva or Time), and the Dalai Lama. The reformer of Tibetan Buddhism(Yungdrung Bon), Padmasambhava, may very well have been a Caucus-Asian considering the part of Pakistan(Swat Valley) he was from at that time(I know that the coloring of deities and saints in depictions is often symbolic, however Padmasambhava is always depicted as Caucus-Asian looking), and the Brahmin Gautama Shakyamuni could also have been more or less Caucus-Asian too. Now of course God-Body/Knowledge did say that Shiva had both Black and White Brahmin followers.... Anyway I'm going off. As you mentioned, we could tie some of this in within another discussion....


Now THIS is relevant:


From "Isis Unveiled" by H.P. Blavatsky:

"Set or Sat-an, the god of the Hittites and Hyk-sos...."

"According to Josephus, the Hyk-sos were the ancestors of the Israelites.* This is doubtless substantially true. The Hebrew Scriptures, which tell a somewhat different story, were written at a later period, and underwent several revisions, before they were promulgated with any degree of publicity. Typhon became odious in Egypt, and shepherds "an abomination." "In the course of the twentieth dynasty he was suddenly treated as an evil demon, insomuch that his effigies and name are obliterated on all the monuments and inscriptions that could be reached."** In all ages the gods have been liable to be euhemerized into men. There are tombs of Zeus, Apollo, Hercules, and Bacchus, which are often mentioned to show that originally they were only mortals. Shem, Ham, and Japhet, are traced in the divinities Shamas of Assyria, Kham of Egypt, and Iapetos the Titan.

"Seth was god of the Hyk-sos..."

[SAMURAI36]

Jun 24, 2009 22:17:14 GMT -5 Tamahu said:

Imagine that someone(the Demiurge) makes up a game, and writes a rule book("the Bible") for this game. And the rule book is written in code so that only those who know the "code" are able to even really know the rules of the game. How is one supposed to win this "game" if they don't know the rules, even though they think they know them because they read the rule book and pray about it without having the mathematics and rituals designed to unlock the meanings of the rules?

What are the earliest demonstrations of these "Biblical Mathematics"? I'm not talking about some post-modern Theosophical "initiates" from the 1800's either... I'm inquiring about individuals and/or groups that practiced this "spiritual system" from the earliest times, in what would have resembled a uniform and consistent manner.

I've studied the writings of Initiates(whether said Initiates have all of the keys or just some of them) enough to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Torah, Talmud, Bahir, Sepher Yetzirah, Zohar, Injiyl(NT), etc. are all based on the Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge both of which precede anything Hebrew.

While I agree with this, the issue remains that just because these books mention these respective "Trees", does not mean that they are necessarily based on them.

If I were to write a book about "how to fuck bitches, and get into orgies", and during which, I happen to mention TANTRA and the TAO of sex, that does not mean that my book is necessarily based on either of those 2 principles.

Where in the Bible, especially where it mentions these Trees, does it mention the Wholistic nature that derives from them? Besides "becoming as Gods, knowing Good and Evil", there is next to nothing to demonstrate that the author(s) possessed any esoteric knowledge of the world around them, let alone the most basic knowledge of the world around them.

Here's an example:


In the same chapter of Leviticus, we find that the author does not even know that insects have six legs.

We are told that insects such as the locust, grasshopper and the cricket have four legs.

Leviticus 11: 20-23
“All winged insects that go upon all fours are an abomination to you. Yet among the winged insects that go on all fours you may eat those who have legs on their feet, with which to leap on the earth. Of them you may eat: the locust according to it’s kind, the cricket according to its kind, and the grasshopper according to its kind. But all other winged insects which have four feet are an abomination to you.

Were grossly erroneous passages such as this one, placed in the Bible as part of the Demiurge's agenda?

Why does the constant postulation that the Bible is more than what it is, continue to persist?

How's about, in the compilation of the book, the thievous, murderous Hebrews/Hyskos/Hittites/Hurrians/Hapiru/Habbatu/Whatever they were called, didn't have a fucking clue what they were talking about, as they attempted to make a theology out of the Lego blocks of other theologies that they stole from other hapless societies before the stuck swords in their necks?

The truth is oftentimes stranger than fiction.

To me 'the Bible' shows the tyrannical nature of the Demiurge and the violence perpetuated by it's karmic eye-for-an-eye system that it has set up.

It sounds like you are speaking under the Gnostic premise here; as such, is this Dualist or Monist?

Either way, the concept of the Demiurge is troubling, given it's literary and philosophical origins; a thrice-removed loosely based notion of the Kemetic SET, by way of Greece, by way of the Gnostics.

Once one begins to follow the bread crumbs back, we begin to see that Demiurge and Set begin to lose similarity on a fundamental aspect.

Demiurge is problematice both Dualistically, and Monistically; the former in that Set, whom Dem is based upon, is in no way as potent as his Kemetic counterpart, Ausar.... The latter, in that Set is not solely responsible for anything, not even the "evil" that is attributed to him, as is the case with Dem.

Now the Christian teachings seem to show a more 'forgiving' side of the Demiurge where following a bunch of outdated commandments is seemingly no longer necesssary(ironically the New Testament threatens us with eternal hell-fire, while the Old Testament doesn't really have a concept of eternal hell.

Neither does the NT, actually. This is the problem that I have with the "Initiates view" (or anyone else's for that matter) of the Bible: simple colloqialisms are not taken into consideration.

Gehenna is not some "eternal hell", as is imagined by post modern Christian authors, the likes of Dante and such.

Gehanna, Sheol, etc were merely romanticized notions based on the way the Jews used to burn corpses in the Valley of Hinnom. Hell, also known as "The Pit", was basically one mass grave/cremation hole. Thus, perishing in the fire, merely meant that one's body wouldn't be immortalized, as those of the Abrahamic legacy saw cremation as a sin (which, BTW is silly, since it's them who say "ashes to ashes".... How are ashes created, if not by burning?)

I could go into detail of how "YAHWEH" of the OT was based on a Volcano, but that's a discussion for another time.

It's just that the NT doesn't have stories of genocide(aside from the Book of Revelation perhaps) like the OT does.)

Perhaps not physical genocide, but certainly cultural genocide. The NT, specifically the Pauline Epistles, are rife with spiritual imperialistic notions. Further, both in the Gospels, as well as the Epistles, Christ (of his own wording, as well as thru the mouth of Paul) condones slavery at worst, and certainly does nothing to speak against it at best.

Thus, it's no wonder that the "Founding Christian Fathers" of Christian Orthodoxy (and no, I don't mean the Fathers of America either) had no problem with the post modern notion of slavery, as it was past to their later Western European ancestors, who used this very same Book as the means for executing the Trans-Atlantic slave trade.

As I've said, the Injiyl(NT) is written in Kabbalistic code for the Initiated only:

"He(Yeshua) answered and said unto them: Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to them it is not given."

To see more of the context of this look up Matthew 13:10-17. Obviously it is for the Initiated only.

So, is it that this passage alone is for the "Initiated" only? or the entire chapter? The entire book of Matthew?

Because as I'd stated, there are gross errors throughout the Bible, and Matthew has a few of its own.

Aside from the fabricated "Prophetic Geneaology" of Christ (which can be discussed later), How is it reconciled within the "initiates view" of how "Matthew" (or whomever wrote this text) quoted the wrong scripture entirely, in order to prove Christ's prophecy:

One of the most glaring mistakes in the New Testament is this one by the author of Matthew:

Matthew 27:9-10
Then was fulfilled what has been spoken by the prophet Jeremiah, saying “And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him on whom a price has been said by some of the sons of Israel, and they gave them for the potter’s field, as the Lord directed me.”

The problem with this passage is that nowhere in Jeremiah can this prophecy be found. Instead it is found in the book of Zechariah!
Zechariah 11:12-13
And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter...

Again, how is this reconciled? "Matthew" can speak all these esoteric utterances, but he can't get his scribes to do basic editorial cleaning up for him?

Again, the Bible is rife with these kinds of mistakes.... And these are the kinds of mistakes that Masonic Initiates such as Thomas Payne and Thomas Jefferson spoke about in their early works.

The above passage doesn't simply mean that those who believe and pray about it will receive the meaning. Almost all Christians pray, right? Well if all one has to do to get the meaning of it is to believe and pray, then everybody who prayed about it would have gotten the meaning already, and there wouldn't have been all these genocides happening all over in the name of "Jesus". Unless of course "the Bible" was actually meant to perpetuate violence...

Again, my problem with the "Initiate's view", is that it appears to be reaching in alot of aspects, while attempting to ignore the obvious. There are issues in the Bible, that serve as the "Elephant in the room", as it were.

There are numerous spiritual systems all around the world, both antiquitous and contemporary, that are far more superlative to whatever incling of "higher truth" that the Bible holds... And they "taste great, and are less filling". I don't think I have to name them here; they've already been named and discussed all over this site.

In the meantime, while searching the Bible for all these deeper meanings, we continue to overlook the gross atrocities that we plainly see as we turn page by page. Most of the "initiated" know the importance of a clean diet, yet the Bible works backwards in its dietary evolution... We go from "nuts and seeds" in Genesis, to eating whatever, "so long as the Lord blesses it" in 2nd Peter.

Yet, I hear everyone, from the Hebrew Israelites, to the Rastas, to the Gnostics and everyone else who places esoteric value on the Bible, ignoring it, as they strive to eat "ITAL", or whatever such non-sense they wanna call it.

This all sounds very grim and morbid I know, but the bright side is that there may be a way to take oneself out of the Demiurge's "game" altogether, instead of trying to win it by playing by the Demiurge's rules, rules that can only be followed by the 'elect' who even know exactly what the rules are anyway.

So, is it part of the Demiurge's "plan" to throw inconsistencies and ridiculous notions in the Bible, to somehow throw the "aspiring Initiate" off the trail to enlightenment?

When do we decide to throw the Biblical Baby out with the Bathwater?

PEACE

[Dr. D-Resperatation]

Jun 25, 2009 0:12:43 GMT -5 SAMURAI36 said:

Jun 24, 2009 22:17:14 GMT -5 Tamahu said:

I could go into detail of how "YAHWEH" of the OT was based on a Volcano, but that's a discussion for another time.

please elaborate

[SAMURAI36]

Jun 24, 2009 20:26:31 GMT -5 Healthy Merking said:

Jun 24, 2009 15:24:54 GMT -5 SAMURAI36 said:

It is my hope to address everyone here in this thread, but I would like to begin with Max Mercury’s statements initially… (BTW, I can’t keep up with all your name changes, LOL!!)

hm -

i think this is the first time i ever changed it -


unless my memory is not doing its job -

LOL!!! ;D

[Healthy Merking]

Jun 26, 2009 2:54:19 GMT -5 SAMURAI36 said:

Jun 24, 2009 20:26:31 GMT -5 Healthy Merking said:

hm -

i think this is the first time i ever changed it -


unless my memory is not doing its job -

LOL!!! ;D

HA - yeah man - now you got me in the mood to change it again -

Peace bro

variety is the spice of the life

[Dr. D-Resperatation]

"Besides "becoming as Gods, knowing Good and Evil", there is next to nothing to demonstrate that the author(s) possessed any esoteric knowledge of the world around them, let alone the most basic knowledge of the world around them."

Nonetheless this verce is there, indicating that the authors possesed esoteric knowledge of the world around them.


"Why does the constant postulation that the Bible is more than what it is, continue to persist?"

There are a couple possible rational reasons for exaalting the bible and some irrational ones as well.

First and formost, unless one is catholic, there is no justifiable spirtually integral reason for for exalting "THE BIBLE" (the book) as it was composed by the church fathers of Rome. But the Books of The Bible are another story.

A belief or worldview that I had reason to espouse is that this earthly drama is in someway or another directed and acted out under the guidence of a loosly written script.

The idea that there is one correct divinely apointed script/war/struggle/inheritence/faith/human drama/natural progression
is espoused by me in this thread:

cradle2dagrave.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ASAMANTHINKETH&action=display&thread=703

which gives me very good reason to believe that ancient spirtual civilzations still struggle to harmonize the earth and the heavens.
Justification for the sometimes savage humans in the bible's being consitered the inheritors of the Kingdom of God is found in the observation that even the Kemetin Civilzation is thought by many to have progresivly become less and less advanced through the generations. Thus, just because we are dealing with 12 tribes of homeless culturally destitute hebrews, we still have no reason not to believe that they are the chossen people either symbolicly or absolutly.

Furthurmore, you are overlooking various spritually and literally valid stories/ books in the bible, such as the story of Noah and his arch, the story of the fall of the tower of Babel, the Song of Solomon, the Book of Psalms, and last but not least the book of Revelations. It was allways my understanding that the stories of the stories of noah and the tower of babel, where man tried to build his way to heaven contain documentation of some distant past that exists in the collective unconcious. Apparently something catyclismic involving heaven and earth happened to the civilizations that the jews represent. The Song of Solomon, without a doubt teaches wisdom, perhaps not the wisdom of the lord, but the wisdom of a very wize man.
Otherwize how does one explain all of the meaning Amir Fatir found in "the tickling of the ant" where he says:

In the Bible, Solomon advises people to learn the ways of the ant and become wise. The
ant’s "wisdom" is a play on the wisdom chakra being associated with the tickling of the
ant.

Until when they came to the Valley of the Ant.
An ant said, enter your houses, (lest) Solomon
and his armies crush you, while they know not.
So he smiled, amused at her speech.
--Quran 27:18-19

I would conjecture that the book of pslamls also represents esoteric knowlege using such imagrery as "the lord is my rock", repersenting the testicles or the philosopher's stone, "he who dwells in the secret place of the most high" representing the lower dan tan or center of gravity, and all sorts of talk of pastures and vallies and mountains representing the third eye. That is how I looked at it.

Aside from other worthy stories, such as Job and Jonah, the book of Revelations is without a doubt jam packed with meaning. Most interpretations that have some "science" by which i mean reasoning behind them only see it as a gnostic kaballah or treatese on kundalini, but i dont compleatly buy this. I am inclined to believe that the book was written from such a high state of conciousness that it warns of political and spitual dangers of not only the time of it's prophesy, but of the future of mankind as well.

Other parts of the bible are more borring than a telephone book, but I recon that the bible's isreali history has been choosen by both god and man to be a symbolic starting point for modern history for a reason.

[Dr. D-Resperatation]

And furthurmore, why would the Quran be so incined to recognize the Torah, as a book given to the Jews by God, and containing the tales of prophits if it is just the story of a pritive appropriating culture.

Perhaps both books were compiled by illuminati though who knows?

[SAMURAI36]

Jun 26, 2009 17:09:36 GMT -5 Dr. D-Resperatation said:

"Besides "becoming as Gods, knowing Good and Evil", there is next to nothing to demonstrate that the author(s) possessed any esoteric knowledge of the world around them, let alone the most basic knowledge of the world around them."

Nonetheless this verce is there, indicating that the authors possesed esoteric knowledge of the world around them.

That's yet again a postulation with little to no justification.

There are numerous reasons as to why that verse is there... Perhaps because the author plagarized that verse, and the concept within it? It's clear that plenty else has been plagarized.

In the meantime, there's not nearly enough other instances of "esoteric" statements in the Bible to corroborate an esoteric train of thought from the authors, or that such a mindset was intended to be conveyed by the reader.

In the meantime, we have plenty of instances of stupidity, craziness, moral bereft, etc in the text, from Genesis to Revelations.

Pointing out 1 or 2 examples of Esoterum does not negate the dozens and perhaps even hundreds of examples of issues thru-out the texts.

I'm noticing that no one is actually commenting on the examples that I'd previously given... Does a locust have 4 legs or not? How does someone know the "high sciences", yet have no clue of the lower ones? And why should we take such a person seriously?

"Why does the constant postulation that the Bible is more than what it is, continue to persist?"

There are a couple possible rational reasons for exaalting the bible and some irrational ones as well.

First and formost, unless one is catholic, there is no justifiable spirtually integral reason for for exalting "THE BIBLE" (the book) as it was composed by the church fathers of Rome. But the Books of The Bible are another story.

Why? If the Roman Church fathers are equally questionable, why not the authors of the various Biblical books? For that matter, none of us (unless you are the exception?) even know who the original authors are, and it's general concensus amongst Biblical scholars, that the names attributed to the books are not the actual authors.

This is demonstrated in the DOCUMENTARY HYPOTHESIS.

If you don't know the actual person who wrote any of these texts, then there's no way that their intent can be gleaned. For all we know, The Roman Church Fathers could have written all of it. Or Perhaps King James.

A belief or worldview that I had reason to espouse is that this earthly drama is in someway or another directed and acted out under the guidence of a loosly written script.

The idea that there is one correct divinely apointed script/war/struggle/inheritence/faith/human drama/natural progression
is espoused by me in this thread:

cradle2dagrave.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ASAMANTHINKETH&action=display&thread=703

which gives me very good reason to believe that ancient spirtual civilzations still struggle to harmonize the earth and the heavens.

It's understandable that physical, mental, and spiritual ascendance is a work in progress. Most of us didn't come into the world, reading minds, levitating ourselves and other objects, etc.

Any one person as an individual is a work in progress, and so is humanity as a whole.

However, that's not the same thing as what is evidenced in the Bible. The Hebrews remained ignorant and savage from start to finish. They easily had 2000+ years to evolve on various levels, especially given the various high societies that they'd spent countless time around (aka, INVADED and CONQUERED).

However, both in the context of the story, and in actual historical accounts, they didn't evolve on iota. Where's the evidence otherwise?

Even the so-called "Masters" in the Bible, such as Jesus himself, was given to racism, misogyny, and general ignorance. And yes, I have examples of this as well.

Justification for the sometimes savage humans in the bible's being consitered the inheritors of the Kingdom of God is found in the observation that even the Kemetin Civilzation is thought by many to have progresivly become less and less advanced through the generations.

Though there is truth to this, we must consider the reasons... How does one expect to remain "advanced", when one's home is being constantly invaded, it's residents killed and/or enslaved, etc? And by the very people we are talking about, no less?

Every invaded or conquered nation or society thru-out history has demonstrated signs of stunted mental, spiritual, economic and social growth. Why should Kemet be any different?

However, the issue at hand is the holy texts of said society's theology. Where in the PERT EM HERU, or the MAXIMS, or other Kemetic texts, do we see the utter foolishness that the Bible is rife with? Can you site some examples?

In the meantime, we clearly saw physical demonstrations of Kemetic greatness, in the form of pyramids, science, art, math, writing, etc. The same applies for the works of other civilizations as well. Thus, it balances out, where we see the best, and the "worst" of different societies.

The same cannot be said of the Hebrews, though. If they were in fact "chosen" for anything, it was to murder, rape, steal, pillage and plunder. Please demonstrate how this balances out, with their 1 or 2 Esoteric Bible verses.

Thus, just because we are dealing with 12 tribes of homeless culturally destitute hebrews, we still have no reason not to believe that they are the chossen people either symbolicly or absolutly.

You're serious with that statement???

I'm truly hoping that you're joking here with this. Why should we operate from such a postulation? What makes them "chosen"? And chosen by whom, other than themselves? The only parties making the claim of being chosen, is that party themselves.

Can we not imagine the level of ego, and Root Chakra domination, to create such a self-appointment?

Certainly the assumption is not that "God" chose them... Is that the same "God" that told them to rape thousands of women, to kill innocent children, to steal other people's entire societies, to murder people who practiced different religions? The same "God" that told them that insects have 4 legs, and that snow comes from "warehouses" in the sky??

Furthurmore, you are overlooking various spritually and literally valid stories/ books in the bible, such as the story of Noah and his arch,

I'm not overlooking it, the story simply makes no sense. Are you asserting that this was a historical event? If so, then the physics of the story are impossible.

Further, the story of Noah is based on Blatant Talmudic racism. You are aware of the Talmudic account of the Noah story, yes?

And also, this story is plagarized from the Sumerian Antedeluvian story. Nothing original here. Like much else of the Bible, anything of value can be found in the very texts that it was stolen from.

the story of the fall of the tower of Babel,

Another fable. The tower of Babel is nothing more than Sumerian ZIGGURATS.

The problem with this story, is that none of the ZIGS (and btw, there were almost 20 of them, so which one was the "Tower"??) fell, or were destroyed... They merely eroded after several millenia.

Also, the story doesn't make sense, even within its own context. Contradictions abound:

In Genesis 10, we read that there were many languages prior to the Tower Of Babel:


Gen 10:5 From these the maritime peoples spread out into their territories by their clans within their nations, each with its own language.

Gen 10:20 These are the sons of Ham by their clans and languages, in their territories and nations.

Gen 10:31 These are the sons of Shem by their clans and languages, in their territories and nations.

So from this, we see that the world has easily dozens of languages, and perhaps hundreds of dialects within each.

However, within the very next chapter of Genesis, we read the exact opposite:

Gen 11:1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech.

Why should I, as an intelligent person, take this seriously??

the Song of Solomon,

What about it? You are aware that, even the context of the story, Solomon didn't write the book by himself, yes?

the Book of Psalms,

What about it? Besides the fact that it's mostly and Ode to a Volcano?

and last but not least the book of Revelations.

What about it? You think this book is some prophecy, merely because the Powers That Be, are trying to mold and shape the world in such a way, as to make it come true?

Honestly, I don't get your point for mentioning these books and stories. They bear very little significant value.... Certainly not on the level of some "high science esoterum".

It was allways my understanding that the stories of the stories of noah and the tower of babel, where man tried to build his way to heaven contain documentation of some distant past that exists in the collective unconcious. Apparently something catyclismic involving heaven and earth happened to the civilizations that the jews represent.

How did you come to this understanding? What is the proof for this?

I am willing to concede that the flood MYTH from Sumeria bears some metaphorical meaning, but I fail to see how the Jews fit into it, other than them plagarizing it from the Sumerians.

The Song of Solomon, without a doubt teaches wisdom, perhaps not the wisdom of the lord, but the wisdom of a very wize man.

A wise man and wise woman. I will perhaps compose another thread, breaking down the SOS, where I clearly demonstrate that he did not write this by himself.

But in the meantime, it's well documented that "Solomon" (imaginary character that he was) plagarized this from Kemetic scripture.

Otherwize how does one explain all of the meaning Amir Fatir found in "the tickling of the ant" where he says:

In the Bible, Solomon advises people to learn the ways of the ant and become wise. The
ant’s "wisdom" is a play on the wisdom chakra being associated with the tickling of the
ant.

Until when they came to the Valley of the Ant.
An ant said, enter your houses, (lest) Solomon
and his armies crush you, while they know not.
So he smiled, amused at her speech.
--Quran 27:18-19

Again, plagarized "wisdom". Why are we not going to the source for this wisdom, instead of continuing to go to the middle man?

Buddha spoke of looking at the ways of ants and bees, nearly a 1000 years before "Solomon" ever wrote anything about it.

Within the ancient scheme of things, the Bible, being the second-to-last "scripture" written in history, is not the oldest, and certainly not the most profound book in existence. Yet we speak of it like it is. Why?

I would conjecture that the book of pslamls also represents esoteric knowlege using such imagrery as "the lord is my rock", repersenting the testicles or the philosopher's stone,

#1) how are you coming to the the understanding that the "Lord being my rock" equates to a man's testicles? Nowhere in the entire Bible do we see any corroboration for that notion. For that matter, I'm hard-pressed to find any allusion to the male testes anywhere in the Bible.

#2) The concept of the Philosopher's Stone is a very much more recent one, in comparison to the Bible. Unless you are saying that the Bible was written in the 8th Century, then you are merely shoe-horning concepts in where they clearly do not fit.

#3) I've broken down extensively any allusions to rocks and mountains in regards to the God of the Bible in another thread. I invite you to refute that perspective.

"he who dwells in the secret place of the most high" representing the lower dan tan or center of gravity, and all sorts of talk of pastures and vallies and mountains representing the third eye. That is how I looked at it.

Why? How did you arrive at these conclusions?

So, the Jews, being shephards and nomads, when they said "valleys and pastures and mountains", they couldn't have simply meant...... "Valleys and pastures and mountains"?

Aside from other worthy stories, such as Job and Jonah,

Really? So when "Job" (another imaginary character) writes that "God" tells him that:

Job 38:22 “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow
or seen the storehouses of the hail...

Snow and hail is stored in storehouses? Really??

the book of Revelations is without a doubt jam packed with meaning.

Such as....?

Most interpretations that have some "science" by which i mean reasoning behind them only see it as a gnostic kaballah or treatese on kundalini, but i dont compleatly buy this.

At least we agree on this.

There is significant reason to believe that the book was written from such a high state of conciousness that it warns of political and spitual dangers of not only the time of it's prophesy, but of the future of mankind as well.

Yet again, in order to make such an assertion, we would have to know who actually wrote it, in order to make such supposition upon their state of consciousness.

Do you know who wrote Revelations? How do you know that it was not all a scam from the "Illuminati"?

Further, who's to say that, as I'd state previously, that the Powers That Be are not trying to bring these events into fruition?

Other parts of the bible are more borring than a telephone book, but I recon that the bible's isreali history has been choosen by both god and man to be a symbolic starting point for modern history for a reason.

Why do you reckon this? What is your reasoning? It sounds to me, that you are postulating, based strictly on a pre-taught dogmatic theological view. Meaning, you assuming that this view is the correct one, because you have been taught that it was correct.

This is a problem for most Bible believers. I, on the other hand, have no such compulsion.

What were the Jews chosen for? What makes them chosen by God, outside of them and their authors saying so?

I would recommend yet another book:

CHOSEN PEOPLE FROM THE CAUCASUS, by Michael Bradley.

HOTEPU

[SAMURAI36]

Jun 26, 2009 19:57:24 GMT -5 Dr. D-Resperatation said:

And furthurmore, why would the Quran be so incined to recognize the Torah, as a book given to the Jews by God, and containing the tales of prophits if it is just the story of a pritive appropriating culture.

Perhaps both books were compiled by illuminati though who knows?

Possibly. I don't hold the Qu'ran to much of a standard either. I've seen how it has butchered Kemetic history, and made all sorts of heinous statements about morality, sexuality, science, etc.

I don't follow any texts from the Abrahamic legacy. Anything from the mental, or historical seed of Abraham is toxic, IMO.

PEACE

[Dr. D-Resperatation]

Your being a spiritual renegade. More power to you.

The, or one purpose of the koran, as far as i, a simple man can recon, was to establish, italics THE RECETATION italics. Meaning among those who are concerned with the sanctity of this world, perhaps the 24 elders who I believe are posited in supreem mathamatics, there was recognized a need to establish not just a doctrine for mundane life, but a supreem book for all time.


From an (and I am coining this word) "enlightened imagination", you must recoginze the validity and responcibility of the statements in the koran that promice God has a reason for this world and He has his purposes etc. I stress recognizing the validity and responcibility in the warning.

What I mean is, if you look at most spirtual hip hop, there are two trends. One is establishing dominance, and another is expressing exhaustion in the world. This is evidenced in all the wild space age divinity claims Vinie Paz makes on the first JMT cd, for example:

"advanced physical form, manifiesting universal mind into the law, traveling land i stand on strands of chemichal vibrations, the math: kings of light departed in graph, so where you gona stand when the elohim return, 7 great sages throught out the ages say you burn... I redifine the chrystoline biological structures implanted in your mind." from winds of war

This expression of spirtual wizardry that seems to be in service to the Law, is negated by the cries of lonlyness that one hears in the song, "I who have nothing". One is forced to ask how is it that this verbal hologram has become nothing more than a destatue man.

The same polarity can be seen in Rza, the only wu member who fully develops his character with spirtual conflict. He goes from being miraculous to being confused.

This is the spirtual state of the culture you claim to represent regardless of your oppinion of the Koran. What I am saying is that The Koran is the nececary resulution to the apparent conflict of God.
Mohamed is flawless in his recetation, and God is emaculate in his revelation. And my point is there is a need for this islamic victory if faith is to be established as the spirtual lifeline for man.

It is a civilized instinct to try to build a resolution to all confict absolutly. Meaning the heart must be reconciled with the mind, and both must agree that they are in accordence with the order of everything. And this is what the Koran represents. Give me a document that has such magnitude.

Pardon me if the rap analogy comes off irrelevent, I am apling a discourcive method I learned in college called, "existential phenomenology".

Peace

[Tamahu]

I'm noticing that no one is actually commenting on the examples that I'd previously given...

I would like to soon. Not that I have to go back and perform an in depth re-study of the Gnostic interpretations of "the Bible", that I haven't been studying as of lately, in order to address your posts(and not that I necessarily agree with most of said 'Gnostic interpretations'), however there does seem to be "something to them", at least on some level. But that will be explored when I can at least gather my thoughts about all of what I want to say and also have more time to address your examples.

For now, is it correct to say that every religion has it's own "version of the Demiurge", whether it be Shiva, Saturn, Yaldabaoth, Jehovah-Elohim(Binah), the Nirmanakaya, etc.?

And also, is the conception of the Gnostic Demiurge(GAOTU) and/or Baphomet of the Asassins/Templars, mainly based on a combination of Ptah, Seker/Sekert, Khnumu, and Set, at least in relation to whatever knowledge the Gnostics may have had of the Khemetian Neteru?

Anyway, I think I'll post a couple new threads to reference, before we go any further in this thread, as that will most likely save us both more time because you'll be able to see more where I'm coming from via these referenced threads; that is to say: you'll be able to see more of the context of where I'm coming from in relation to specific statements that I make when addressing your questions and statements.

[Dr. D-Resperatation]

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"Besides "becoming as Gods, knowing Good and Evil", there is next to nothing to demonstrate that the author(s) possessed any esoteric knowledge of the world around them, let alone the most basic knowledge of the world around them."

Nonetheless this verce is there, indicating that the authors possesed esoteric knowledge of the world around them.

That's yet again a postulation with little to no justification.

There are numerous reasons as to why that verse is there... Perhaps because the author plagarized that verse, and the concept within it? It's clear that plenty else has been plagarized.
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THE FACT THAT, HAVING PUT THE VERCE THERE, PLAGARIZED OR NOT, THE AUTHORS WOULD BE FORCED TO CONSIDER THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE IDEA, MAKES IT IMPLAUSIBE THAT THIS THEME IS NOT EMENENT AND DEVELOPED IN THE SUBSEQUENT MURDER OF CAIN AND ABLE, AND THE EMERGENT FIGURES OF RIGHTOUSNESS SUCH AS MOSSES AND JOSEPH.
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Why? If the Roman Church fathers are equally questionable, why not the authors of the various Biblical books? For that matter, none of us (unless you are the exception?) even know who the original authors are, and it's general concensus amongst Biblical scholars, that the names attributed to the books are not the actual authors.

This is demonstrated in the DOCUMENTARY HYPOTHESIS.

If you don't know the actual person who wrote any of these texts, then there's no way that their intent can be gleaned. For all we know, The Roman Church Fathers could have written all of it. Or Perhaps King James.
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I KNOW YOU ARE KIDDING SAYING THAT THE CHURCH FATHERS COULD HAVE WRITTEN THE BIBLE, BUT WHEN YOU EQUATE THEIR QUESTIONABLITY WITH THAT OF THE HEBREWS YOU IGNORE THE CULTURAL INGEGRITY OF A TRUE SCRIBE WHO LIVES THE CULTURE AS COMPARED TO THE BLATANT IRRELEVENCE OF A FORIGNER WHO IS MIXING AND MACHING TO SUIT HIS LIKING.
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However, that's not the same thing as what is evidenced in the Bible. The Hebrews remained ignorant and savage from start to finish. They easily had 2000+ years to evolve on various levels, especially given the various high societies that they'd spent countless time around (aka, INVADED and CONQUERED).

However, both in the context of the story, and in actual historical accounts, they didn't evolve on iota. Where's the evidence otherwise?

Even the so-called "Masters" in the Bible, such as Jesus himself, was given to racism, misogyny, and general ignorance. And yes, I have examples of this as well.
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THIS IS BECAUSE THE BIBLE CHARACTERIZES NOT ONLY THE HEBREWS BUT THE LORD ALSO, AND IT IS THE STORY OF HIS SALVATION AND GRACE, NOT THEIR REDEMTION APPARENTLY. A HARVARD PROFESSOR ONCE CAME TO MY COLLEGE TO DISCUSS THE BIBLE AND HE POINTED OUT THAT YAHWEH IS NOT THE ONLY GOD IN THE BIBLE AND THE BIBLE OFTEN CONTADICTS ITSELF BY SOMETIMES PORTRAYING HIM AS THE ONLY GOD, OTHERTIMES PORTRAYING HIM AS IN COMPETITION WITH OTHER GODS, AND HE ALSO GOES FROM BEING WRATHFULL AND VENGEFULL IN THE OT TO BEING MERCIFULL AND FORGIVING IN THE NT, SO PERHAPS THE EVOLUTION THAT THE BIBLE DOCUMENTS IS THAT OF GOD AND NOT THAT OF THE HEBREWS, THEY ARE JUST HIS FOLLOWERS.

AND EVEN JESUS QUOTES THE OT SAYING "IS IT NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK THAT YE ARE GODS". DOESNT THIS REFLECT ESOTERIC UNDERSTANING IN BOTH THE NEW AND OLD TESTAMENT. I DO FIND IT QUESTIONABLE THAT MOST CHRISTIANS IGNORE THIS INSTANCE WHEN PROCLIAMING JESUS THE ONLY SON OF GOD. AND HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT THE JEWS DO NOT DEVELOPE ONE IOTA WHEN THEY GO FROM BEING THE SOUNDRELS YOU ACCUSE THEM OF BEING AS JEWS TO THE PREACHERS THEY BECOME AS CHRISTIAN. SAYING THAT THE CHIRSITAN RHETORIC IS IMPERIALISTIC IS IRELEVENT, BECAUSE IT CAME OUT OF ROMAN OCCUPIED TERITORY, SO IT WAS THE NATURE OF SOCIETY AT THE TIME, AND A NATURAL EXPRESION OF GOD SOVIERNTY AMONG EVIL.
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However, the issue at hand is the holy texts of said society's theology. Where in the PERT EM HERU, or the MAXIMS, or other Kemetic texts, do we see the utter foolishness that the Bible is rife with? Can you site some examples?
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COMPARING THE HOLY TEXTS OF SAID SOCIETY'S THEOLGY ONE MUST RECOGNIZE THAT IN KEMET THERE EXISTED SOME PRE IMAGINABLE STATE OF CIVILZATION WHERE EVIL WAS NOT AN ISSUE. ALTHOUGH I AM NOT AN EXPERT, ONE CAN SAY THAT EVEN THE EVIL BROTHER WHO CUTS OSIRUS INTO PIECES IS RECONCILED AS A NECECARY FORCE OF NATURE THAT IS OVERCOME AND NOT TO BE FEARED. AND THE WHOLE OF THE CULTURE IS NOT EFFECTED BY THIS STATE OF BALANCE IN ANY NEGITIVE WAY. THE HEBEREW BIBLE ON THE OTHER HAND DEPICTS EVIL AS A PERSISTANT FORCE IN MAN. I ONCE HEARD A BIBLICAL SCHOLAR COMMENT THAT WHEN GOD ASKS KANE WHERE HIS BROTHER ABLE IS, HIS REPLY , "AM I MY BROTHER'S KEEPER" SERVES AS THE QUESTION FOR WHICH THE REST OF THE BIBLE IS ELUCIDATION. I WOULD CHANGE THAT HYPOTHOSIS THAT "THE KNOWLEGE OF GOOD AND EVIL" IS THE CONFLICT/THEME OF THE BIBLE, POTENTIALLY RECONCILED BY JESUS DYING ON A CROSS.
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I'm truly hoping that you're joking here with this. Why should we operate from such a postulation? What makes them "chosen"? And chosen by whom, other than themselves? The only parties making the claim of being chosen, is that party themselves.

Can we not imagine the level of ego, and Root Chakra domination, to create such a self-appointment?

Certainly the assumption is not that "God" chose them... Is that the same "God" that told them to rape thousands of women, to kill innocent children, to steal other people's entire societies, to murder people who practiced different religions? The same "God" that told them that insects have 4 legs, and that snow comes from "warehouses" in the sky??
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IT IS INTERESTING FREDRICH NIETZCH IN HIS GENEOLOGY OF MORALS ASERTED THAT THE HEBREWS PULLED OF A HISTORICAL FIST IN THAT THEY REVERCE THE MORALITY IMPLICIT IN NATURE TO ONE THAT IS SUITABLE FOR A SERVILE CLASS OF PEOPLE, BY CLIAMING THAT BY THE FACT THAT THEY ARE OPPRESSED, THEY ARE THEREFORE SUPERIOR TO THEIR OPPRESSOR IN THE EYES OF AN ALLMIGHT GOD...BUT PERHAPS THEY ARE RIGHT IN THIS CONCLUSION.

YOUR VIEW OF THEM AS RAPISTS AND PILLIGERS:

MY ONLY REFUTATION, AND I KNOW ITS AN OVERLY SIMPLE ONE, IS THAT THE LANGUAGE USED IN THEIR LORDS COMANDMENTS SUGGESTS HE, YAHWEH, WAS GODLY.

PERHAPS IT IS A LITTLE LATE IN THE GAME FOR THIS, BUT HOW DO ALL OF THE HORRIBLE THINGS YOU CLAIM GOD HAD THE JEWS DO LINE UP WITH THE TEN COMMANDMENTS? I AM NOT FARMILIAR WITH ANY OF THE RAPPING AND WOMANIZINGS YOU MENTION, SO PERHAPS YOU COULD SITE THEM. WHERE DOES GOD ORDER THE JEWS TO KILL CHILDREN? WERE THESE CHILDREN EVIL OR DID THEY REPRESENT EVIL CONTEXTUALLY?