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Post by Dr. D-Resperatation on Jun 27, 2009 2:28:40 GMT -5
I'm truly hoping that you're joking here with this. Why should we operate from such a postulation? What makes them "chosen"? And chosen by whom, other than themselves? The only parties making the claim of being chosen, is that party themselves.
Can we not imagine the level of ego, and Root Chakra domination, to create such a self-appointment?
Certainly the assumption is not that "God" chose them... Is that the same "God" that told them to rape thousands of women, to kill innocent children, to steal other people's entire societies, to murder people who practiced different religions? The same "God" that told them that insects have 4 legs, and that snow comes from "warehouses" in the sky??
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IT IS INTERESTING FREDRICH NIETZCH IN HIS GENEOLOGY OF MORALS ASERTED THAT THE HEBREWS PULLED OF A HISTORICAL FIST IN THAT THEY REVERCE THE MORALITY IMPLICIT IN NATURE TO ONE THAT IS SUITABLE FOR A SERVILE CLASS OF PEOPLE, BY CLIAMING THAT BY THE FACT THAT THEY ARE OPPRESSED, THEY ARE THEREFORE SUPERIOR TO THEIR OPPRESSOR IN THE EYES OF AN ALLMIGHT GOD...BUT PERHAPS THEY ARE RIGHT IN THIS CONCLUSION.
YOUR VIEW OF THEM AS RAPISTS AND PILLIGERS:
MY ONLY REFUTATION, AND I KNOW ITS AN OVERLY SIMPLE ONE, IS THAT THE LANGUAGE USED IN THEIR LORDS COMANDMENTS SUGGESTS HE, YAHWEH, WAS GODLY.
PERHAPS IT IS A LITTLE LATE IN THE GAME FOR THIS, BUT HOW DO ALL OF THE HORRIBLE THINGS YOU CLAIM GOD HAD THE JEWS DO LINE UP WITH THE TEN COMMANDMENTS? I AM NOT FARMILIAR WITH ANY OF THE RAPPING AND WOMANIZINGS YOU MENTION, SO PERHAPS YOU COULD SITE THEM. WHERE DOES GOD ORDER THE JEWS TO KILL CHILDREN? WERE THESE CHILDREN EVIL OR DID THEY REPRESENT EVIL CONTEXTUALLY?
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Post by Dr. D-Resperatation on Jun 27, 2009 2:53:55 GMT -5
Furthurmore, you are overlooking various spritually and literally valid stories/ books in the bible, such as the story of Noah and his arch,
I'm not overlooking it, the story simply makes no sense. Are you asserting that this was a historical event? If so, then the physics of the story are impossible.
Further, the story of Noah is based on Blatant Talmudic racism. You are aware of the Talmudic account of the Noah story, yes?
And also, this story is plagarized from the Sumerian Antedeluvian story. Nothing original here. Like much else of the Bible, anything of value can be found in the very texts that it was stolen from.
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ALTHOUGH THE PHYSICS OF THE STORY, I ASSUME YOU MEAN NOAH, ARE IMPOSSIBLE, SO ARE ALL THE PHYSICS OF ALL OR MOST MYTHOLOGICAL STORIES. RIGHT?
ALTHOUGH, NO I AM NOT FARMILIAR WITH THE TALMUDIC ACCOUNT OF THE NOAH STORY AND ITS APPARENT RACISIM, ASSUMING THAT IT IS SIMILAR TO THE ORIGINAL SUMARIAN ANTIDELUVIAN STORY, IT SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED AS A MYTH AND SUBSEQUENTLY DESERVES ATENTION AS A SYMBOLIC INTERPRETATION OF SOME ACTUAL EVENT. BOTH OF THESE, THE INTERPRETATON AND THE EVENT ARE VALUABLE AND NOTEABLE. PERHAPS THE VALUE OF THE HEBREW CONVAYENCE OF THE SUMARIAN ANTIDELUVIAN STORY LIES IN THE THE DIFFERNCE IN THE IMPLICATIONS OF THEIR INTERPRETATION. ALTHOUGH I CAN NOT PROVE THIS IS POSSIBLE, THEIR APPROPRIATION OF THE ENUMA ELISH SUGGESTS THEY WERE MANIPULATING MYTHOLOGIES IN AN ATEMPT TO CREATE ORDER, OR A WORLD ORDER OR BOTH. PERHAPS THIS IS THE POINT.
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Another fable. The tower of Babel is nothing more than Sumerian ZIGGURATS.
The problem with this story, is that none of the ZIGS (and btw, there were almost 20 of them, so which one was the "Tower"??) fell, or were destroyed... They merely eroded after several millenia.
Also, the story doesn't make sense, even within its own context. Contradictions abound:
In Genesis 10, we read that there were many languages prior to the Tower Of Babel:
Gen 10:5 From these the maritime peoples spread out into their territories by their clans within their nations, each with its own language.
Gen 10:20 These are the sons of Ham by their clans and languages, in their territories and nations.
Gen 10:31 These are the sons of Shem by their clans and languages, in their territories and nations.
So from this, we see that the world has easily dozens of languages, and perhaps hundreds of dialects within each.
However, within the very next chapter of Genesis, we read the exact opposite:
Gen 11:1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech.
Why should I, as an intelligent person, take this seriously??
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THE REASON YOU SHOULD TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY IS BECAUSE SUCH A GLARING MISTAKE SUGGEST SOMETHING. MUCH LIKE THE REFERENCE TO KNOWLEGE OF GOOD AND EVIL, ONE SHOULD CONSIDER THE FACT THAT THE PEOPLE WHO WROTE THE LINE PROBABLY NOTICED WHAT THEY WERE WRITTING SO THEIR MISTAKE MAY BE THERE FOR A REASON.
HOWEVER UNLIKELY THIS MAY BE, FURTHER COMPARISON TO THE MENTION OF KNOWLEGE OF GOOD AND EVIL SHOULD LEAD YOU TO CONCLUDE THAT THE WRITERS OF THIS BOOK ARE NOT DEALING WITH SUPERFICAL CONCEPTS. THE PROSPECT A WHOLE WORLD USING THE SAME LANGUAGE AND SPEECH AND THEN LOOSING THIS ABILITY WOULD SUGGEST A DETERIORATION OF A HIGH CULTURE TO A PRIMITIVE ONE. ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THE ISSUE THAT IT WAS GOD WHO DISMANTLED A SYMBOLIC TOWER TO HEAVEN CAUSEING CONFUSION AMONG THE PEOPLE OF THE EARTH. DOES NOT SUCH A PROFOUND CHANGE IN CONCIOUSNESS COMPARE TO THE IDEA OF BECOMEING KNOWING OF GOOD AND EVIL, IN THAT BOTH WOULD SUGGEST A FALL FROM UNDERSTANDING TO CONFUSION. AS AN INTELIGENT PERSON YOU SHOULD TAKE SUCH A JUXTAPOSITION SERIOUSLY. ALSO, PERHAPS THE CHAPTERS WERE REVERSED IN ORDER LIKE THE FIRST AND SECOND CHAPTERS OF GENISIS WERE REVERSED IN ORDER.
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the Song of Solomon,
What about it? You are aware that, even the context of the story, Solomon didn't write the book by himself, yes?
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WHAT DOES THAT DO TO THE FACT THAT IT USED TO INSPIRE IN ME WISDOM WHEN I WAS YOUNG? DOES IT DETRACT FROM THE VALUE OF THE WORK?
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Quote:the Book of Psalms,
What about it? Besides the fact that it's mostly and Ode to a Volcano?
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EVEN IF IT IS JUST A WORK PRAISING NATURE AND SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF THE ANTHROMORPHICATION OF A VOLCANO, THE SPIRTUAL AND GODLY QUALITIES OF GOD AS DEPICTED IN THIS BOOK ARE UPLIFTING. AND ANY PERCEPTIVE READER WILL RECOGNIZE THE DIFFEENCE BETWEEN A QUINTESSENTIAL FOOLISH TRIBAL CHARACHTER WHO WORSHIPS A VOLCANO AND THE PSALMIST'S WORSHIP OF THE LORD. SPECIFICALLY THE LORD IS ENDOWED WITH CHARACHTERISTICS BEYOND THOSE OF A HUMAN. EXAMPLES:
On the wicked he will rain fiery coals and burning sulfur; a scorching wind will be their lot.
WOULD NOT A VOLCANO RAIN COAL ON THE WICKED AND THE GOOD ALIKE. THIS IS MORE REMNICENT OF THE ELEMENTAL PUNNISHMENTS DESCRIBED IN THE KORAN THAT ARE OBVIOSLY HIDDEN ESSOTERIC POSTULATIONS.
Psa 50:3 Our God comes and will not be silent; a fire devours before him, and around him a tempest rages.
IN YOUR VIEW THIS IS JUST A STUPID DESCRIPTION OF A VOLCANO, BUT I KNOW THAT THE POETIC READER WILL SEE THE SPIRTUAL EXHALTATION OF A BEING HERE, A BEING THAT IS GLORIFIED PERHAPS BY A VOLCANO, BUT DEFINATLY BEYOND A TORNADO.
Psa 50:4 He summons the heavens above, and the earth, that he may judge his people:
WHY WOULD A VOLCANO WANT TO JUDGE PEOPLE?
Psa 89:46 How long, O Lord? Will you hide yourself forever? How long will your wrath burn like fire?
I SUPPOSE THE EMOTION ONE CONJURS WITH FEAR OF DEATH IMPLIED BY A DORMENT VOLCANO IS THE SAME AS THE FEAR OF GOD, AND THAT THIS VERCE DOES NOT DEMONSTRATE A SENTIMENT THAT TRANSENDS A WORLDLY FEAR.
Psa 97:1 The Lord reigns, let the earth be glad; let the distant shores rejoice.
THERE IS NO SPIRITUAL TONE IN THIS STATEMENT. IT IS THE STUPID CONTENTMENT OF A HEBREW WHO BELIVES THAT A VOLCANO IS SMART AND THE REST OF NATURE IS SUBSERVIENT TO IT.
Psa 97:2 Clouds and thick darkness surround him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne.
THIS DOES NOT SUGGEST THE TERRIBLE SOLIDITY AND MORAL REQUISITE ATTRIBUTED TO KUNDULINI AND THE BASE OF THE SPINE.
Psa 97:3 Fire goes before him and consumes his foes on every side.
NOT A REFERNCE TO THE "SQUARE"
Psa 97:4 His lightning lights up the world; the earth sees and trembles.
THE EARTH COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE MEANT ASIA, AND BY ASIA I MEAN THE MIND.
Psa 97:5 The mountains melt like wax before the Lord, before the Lord of all the earth
Psa 105:39 He spread out a cloud as a covering, and a fire to give light at night.
Surely the most vivid description of YAHWEH as a volcanic mountain occurs in Psalms 18. Here we read:
Psa 18:2 The Lord is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
WHY WOULD THEY NOT SAY MOUNT. "THE LORD IS MY MOUNT" THEY SAY MOUNTAIN IN OTHER PSALMS. ASSUMING THEY DONT HAVE A WORD FOR VOLCANO. WHY WOULD A VOLCANO BE PORTRAYED AS A ROCK AND NOT A MOUNTAIN?
EVEN IF IT IS A VOLCANO, AS A STUDENT OF WISDOM YOU SHOULD RECOGNIZE THE FAITHFULLNESS OF THIS PSAMIST. IF HE IS GLORIFING THE LORD IN THE FORM OF A VOLCANO, HIS ATTACHMENT TO THE LORD DEMONSTRATES AN ABANDOMENT OF THE EGO, AND THIS WOULD NATURALY LEAD TO SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING.
Psa 18:3 I call to the Lord, who is worthy of praise, and I am saved from my enemies.
HOW DOES A VOLCANO SAVE ONE FROM ONES ENEMIES?
Psa 18:4 The cords of death entangled me; the torrents of destruction overwhelmed me.
THIS DOES NOT MAKE EQUAL SENCE POETICLY AS A DESCRIPTION OF THE TRIALS ONE MUST ENDURE ON THE SPIRTUAL PATH OF MEDITATION.
Psa 18:5 The cords of the grave coiled around me; the snares of death confronted me.
Psa 18:6 In my distress I called to the Lord; I cried to my God for help. From his temple he heard my voice; my cry came before him, into his ears.
VOLCANOS RESPOND TO CRIES FOR HELP.
Psa 18:7 The earth trembled and quaked, and the foundations of the mountains shook; they trembled because he was angry.
Psa 18:8 Smoke rose from his nostrils; consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it.
ADMITEDLY, PROBABLY A REFERENCE TO A VOCANO, BUT I THINK YOU WILL SEE MY POINT AS WELL.
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Post by Dr. D-Resperatation on Jun 27, 2009 4:21:23 GMT -5
The Book of Revelations: What about it? You think this book is some prophecy, merely because the Powers That Be, are trying to mold and shape the world in such a way, as to make it come true? Honestly, I don't get your point for mentioning these books and stories. They bear very little significant value.... Certainly not on the level of some "high science esoterum". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire so you can become rich and white clothes to wear , so you can coveryour shamefull nakedness, and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see."REV 3.18 "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!" REV.6.6. BOTH OF THESE VERCES SUGGEST THE TEACHING OF QIGONG. THE ANCIENT CHINESE TAOISTS USED THE SAME LANGUAGE SAYING THINS LIKE PICK THE FLOWER TO HIDE THE HERB, THAN MOVE THE CLOWD, (NOT EXACTLY BUT YOU GET MY POINT) AND DR. YANG JWING MING DOCUMENTED HOW IT ALL SIGNIFIED KEEPING THE MIND STILL WHILE SEEZING THE EMOTIONS, THEN MOVING THE QI WHILE "KEEPING THE NOTHING" THIS IS WHAT IS BEING DESCRIBED HERE. I HAVE NEVER HAEARD ANYONE ELSE PUT FORTH THIS IDEA BUT IT MAKES SENCE. THE FIRST ADVICE QUOTED ABOVE FROM A FIGURE OF INTENCE WISDOM REFERENCES, "gold refined in the fire" WHICH PROBABLY REFERS TO THE SO CALLED LOWER BURNER OF QIGONG, OR THE HEART. THE CLOTHS REPRESENT A GOOD AURA, AND THE SALVE REPRESENTS THE IMPRESSIVE CONDITON OF A QI MASTER'S EYES WHICH ARE SAID TO CHANGE WHEN ONE IS ENLIGHTENED. "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!" REFERENCES TO BUILDING QI WHILE KEEPING THE MIND FIXED AND CIRCULATING ENERGY. MY REASONING FOR BELIEVING THAT THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS IS INDEED PROPHESY IS MORE DUE TO THE QUALITY OF THE BOOK THEN THE WAY THE WORLD IS UNFOLDING, ALTHOUGH THE COINCEDENCE BETWEEN THE IDEA THAT ONE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BUY OR CELL WITHOUT THE MARK OF THE BEAST, AND THE EVOLUTION OF MICROCHIPS IN BODIES WITH DEBT, AND MICROCHIPS IN CURRENCY BEARS STRIKING RESEMLENCE TO THE SCRIPTURE. ACTUALLY I THINK THAT AS A DOCUMENT OF QIGONG, IT MAKES SENCE THAT THE FUTURE MAY BE FORTOLD IN IT, AS I HAVE READ IN "EMBRYONIC BREATHING" A QIGONG BOOK BY DR YANG JWING MING, THAT ONE PHENOMENON THAT OCCURS WITH QIGONG PRACTICE IS SEEING THE PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE SIMULTANIOUSLY. THEREFORE, I HAVE THEORIZED THAT THE THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS REPRESENTS THE PERFECT MICRO/MACRO COSMIC ORBIT OF MEDITATION, ESTABLISHING THE PERFECT CYCLE OF CREATION FOR MAN IN THE PERSON OF CHRIST WHO IS THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA THE BEGINGING AND END. ALSO, NATIVE AMERICAN PROPHECIES ABOUT AMERICA CAME TRUE, SO WHY SHOULDNT HEBREW PROPHECIES ABOUT MESSIAH? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Within the ancient scheme of things, the Bible, being the second-to-last "scripture" written in history, is not the oldest, and certainly not the most profound book in existence. Yet we speak of it like it is. Why? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SIMPLE, TWO REASONS: 1. THE BIBLE DEALS WITH EVIL AS A FORCE, SO WHILE BUDDIST TEXTS MIGHT BE OLDER, THEY DONT DEAL WITH EVIL, SO PEOPLE'S THOLOGICAL FACINATION WITH THE DEVIL WONT BE SATISPHIED BY A BOOK IN WHICH MORALITY IS NOT QUESTIONED BY EVIL. OTHER OLDER BOOKS LIKE INDIAN BOOKS ARE STUDIED BY THEIR RESPECTIVE CULTURES BUT 2. THE BIBLE REPRESENTS THE EXPANTION OF THE JEWISH SECT INTO AN ALL INCLUCIVE RELIGION THAT ACCEPTS AND REQUIRES THE ADHERENCE OF ALL MANKIND SO CHIRST IS ACCEPTED DESPITE THE HISTORICAL DISINTEGRITIES IMPLICIT IN THE BIBLE ON ACCOUNT OF THE FACT THAT PERHAPS THE ILLUMINATI WANT ALL OF MANKIND TO SURENDER THEIR CULTURE TO A SINGLE RELIGION. THE IRONY IS THAT THEY ARE USEING A TRUE GOD, CHRIST AS THEIR MEANS FOR CONGREGATING THE MASSES. SO THERFORE PERHAPS THEY ARE A NECECERY EVIL, AND THEIR PLOY IS ALSO A POTENTIAL SAVING GRACE. THAT REALLY SUMS UP MY ACCEPTANCE OF THE BIBLE RIGHT THERE, BUT... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote:I would conjecture that the book of pslamls also represents esoteric knowlege using such imagrery as "the lord is my rock", repersenting the testicles or the philosopher's stone, #1) how are you coming to the the understanding that the "Lord being my rock" equates to a man's testicles? Nowhere in the entire Bible do we see any corroboration for that notion. For that matter, I'm hard-pressed to find any allusion to the male testes anywhere in the Bible. #2) The concept of the Philosopher's Stone is a very much more recent one, in comparison to the Bible. Unless you are saying that the Bible was written in the 8th Century, then you are merely shoe-horning concepts in where they clearly do not fit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NOT ACCORDING TO AMIR FATIR: The New Testament presents chi circulation through the Microcosmic Orbit in symbolic code language: And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. - Matthew 16:18 Peter symbolizes the male sexual power. It means, etymologically, father and rock. To this day, "peter" is a slang term for the human phallus. "Rock" symbolizes male sexual potential stored in the testicles. "Upon this rock I will build my church." The word translated "church" actually meant "circle". The circle to which Jesus referred is the circle of chi that, when activated, runs through the body in the Microcosmic Orbit. The foundation of chi, for men, is male sexual energy that's stored within the testicles. Simon (Semen) Barjona is upgraded, as it were, to Peter. The circle is established upon mastery of sexual discipline, i.e. the ability to engage in advanced sexual practices without ejaculating. This once-hidden science is known as Tantric yoga in India. FROM amirfatir.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/Church.htmIF ITS IN THE NEW TESTEMENT WHO IS TO SAY IT CANT BE IN THE OLD TESTEMENT. --------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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Post by Dr. D-Resperatation on Jun 27, 2009 5:27:39 GMT -5
"he who dwells in the secret place of the most high" representing the lower dan tan or center of gravity, and all sorts of talk of pastures and vallies and mountains representing the third eye. That is how I looked at it.
Why? How did you arrive at these conclusions?
So, the Jews, being shephards and nomads, when they said "valleys and pastures and mountains", they couldn't have simply meant...... "Valleys and pastures and mountains"?
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HOW DID I ARRIVE AT THESE CONCLUSIONS?
I WILL TELL YOU EXACTLY, AS FOR A MINUTE I DIDNT KNOW AND I THOUGHT I JUST MADE THE CONECTION, BUT ACTUALLY I HAVE A GOOD REASON. I HAD A COUPLE BOOKS ON QI GONG, ALL BY DR. YANG JWING MING, AND IN ONE OF THEM, POSSIBLY EMBRYONIC BREATHING, HE TALKS ABOUT HOW THE FAMOUS TREASTSE ON DAOISM, THE TAO DE CHING IS ACTUALLY A TEACHING ABOUT QIGONG IN VAILED LANGUAGE, AND ALL THE OBSERVATIONS ABOUT NATURE OUTSIDE OF THE BODY, ARE REALLY ABOUT THE ORGANS AND GLANDS OF THE HUMAN. SO I APPLIED THE SAME THEORY TO THE OBSERVATIONS OF NATURE FOUND IN THE BIBLE AND THE SEEM VALID.
"He Who Dwells in the Secret Place of the Most High Shall Abide Under the Shadow of the Almighty" PSALM 91.1.
WHERE ELSE COULD THE SECRET PLACE OF THE MOST HIGH BE ACCEPT WITHIN ONESELF. IT SURELY IS NOT NAKED BEHIND A LEAF. THESE THEMES ARE ELABORATED. WHAT IS THE MEANING OF NAKEDNESS AS DESCRIBED IN GENESIS AND REVELATIONS? WHAT IS THE MEANING OF SECRET PLACE? IN QIGONG THEY TALK ABOUT THE DAN TAN, AND THE REAL DAN TAN, MEANING PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE DEEP WITHIN THEMSELVES IN MEDIDTATION, AND THEY ARE NOT KNOWING ENOUGH YET TO RECOGNIZE THE "REAL DAN TAN" WHICH IS EVEN DEEPER. IN QIGONG YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO KEEP YOUR MIND AND SPIRIT LOCATED THERE AND AT THE THIRD EYE.
CONSIDERING, THE SUBSEQUENT VERCE: 91.3 SAYS "SURELY HE WILL SAVE ME FROM THE FOWLER'S SNARE AND FREOM THE DEADLY PESTILENCE". DOES THIS NOT REMIND YOU OF THE KORAN WHERE THEY PRAY FROM PROTECTION FROM THE WISPERS OF EVERY EVIL JINN. WHERE DO YOU HEAR WISPERS? IN YOUR HEAD. SO WHERE IS THE PRESENCE OF FOWLER'S SNARE? IN YOUR HEAD, THUS THE PSALM IS A WAY OF CONVAYING MEDITAITON PRACTICES OF KEEPING SILENT OF DEADLY THOUGHTS. FURTHURMORE THE LAST VERCE OF THE PSALM HAS THE LORD SAYING, "BECAUSE HE, (THE PSALMIST) LOVES ME...I WILL DELIVER HIM AND HONOR HIM, WITH LONG LIFE WILL I SATISFY HIM AND SHOW HIM MY SALVATION." DOES NOT THE PRACTICE OF MEDITAION AND QIGONG LEAD TO A LONG LIFE?
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Quote:Aside from other worthy stories, such as Job and Jonah,
Really? So when "Job" (another imaginary character) writes that "God" tells him that:
Job 38:22 “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow
or seen the storehouses of the hail...
Snow and hail is stored in storehouses? Really??
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JOB 38:20 WHAT IS THE WAY TO THE ABODE OF LIGHT? AND WHERE DOES DARKNESS RESIDE.
TELL ME THAT IS NOT A WORTHY PARABLE. GZA "YOU REMAIN STUCK TRING TO FIGURE THE SHAPE OF SPACE" SAME IDEA. RZA "EXISTEN EVERYWHERE BUT YOU STILL CANT LOCATE" MORE OF THE SAME.
STOREHOUSES OF SNOW AND HAIL ARE PROBABLY CHEMICHAL REFERENCES TO GLANDS IN THE BODY. FURTHUR EXAMPLES OF CHI TALK IN JOB, joB 29.6. WHEN MY PATH WAS DRENCHED WITH CREAM AND THE ROCK POURED OUT FOR ME STREAMS OF OLIVE OIL." OLIVEOIL IS NOT LAVA..."
THE VOICES OF THE NOBLES WERE HUSHED AND THEIR TOUNGES STUCK TO THE ROOF OF THEIR MOUTHS" YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO KEEP YOUR TONGUE STUCK TO THE ROOF OF YOUR MOUTH WHEN CIRCULATING ENERGY.
JOB 38.4. "WHERE WERE YOU WHEN I LAID THE EARTH'S FOUNDATION? TELL ME, IF YOU UNDERSTAND . WHO MARKED OFF ITS DIMENTIONS? SURELY YOU KNOW! WHO STRETCHED A MEASURING LINE ACROSS IT? ON WHAT WERE ITS FOOTINGS SET, OR WHO LAID ITS CORNERSTONE"
MOER QIGONG QUESTIONING INVOLVING THE EARTH AND THE HEAVENS.
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the book of Revelations is without a doubt jam packed with meaning.
Such as....?
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VARIOUS CHURCHES ARE ANALGOUS TO VARIOUS CHAKRAS, SO THE BODY OF CHRIST IS SEEN AS APPARENT WITHIN MAN AND WITHIN THE WORLD.
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Quote:Most interpretations that have some "science" by which i mean reasoning behind them only see it as a gnostic kaballah or treatese on kundalini, but i dont compleatly buy this.
At least we agree on this.
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I DONT KNOW O.G. I AM GOING TO HAVE TO GO WITH AMIR FATIR ON THIS ONE. HE TOLD ME PERSONALY THAT REVELATIONS DEALS WITH AWAKENING KUNKULINI. WHY WOULD HE LIE? I THINK YOU MISSED MY POINT IN WHAT I WROTE ABOVE. I DONT AGREE WITH THOSE WHO SEE IT *ONLY* AS GNOSTIC KABALLAH, IN THAT I ALSO THINK IT IS PROPHESY. AMIR FATIR SAID, "No, I don't take Revelation literally, though some parts do brush against actual events." BUT I DONT SEE THE REASONING IN THIS. SPECIFICALY WHY WOULD SOME PARTS JUST HAPPEN TO BRUSH AGAINST ACUTAL EVENTS. HIS WORDS IMPLY THAT HE SEES THIS AS MORE THAN A COINCDENCE IN THAT THEY *DO* BRUSH AGAINST, AND DONT *APPEAR* TO BRUSH. SO, WHY WOULD ONLY A FEW HERE AND THERE EVENTS ACTUALLY CORRESPOND?
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Quote:There is significant reason to believe that the book was written from such a high state of conciousness that it warns of political and spitual dangers of not only the time of it's prophesy, but of the future of mankind as well.
Yet again, in order to make such an assertion, we would have to know who actually wrote it, in order to make such supposition upon their state of consciousness.
Do you know who wrote Revelations? How do you know that it was not all a scam from the "Illuminati"?
Further, who's to say that, as I'd state previously, that the Powers That Be are not trying to bring these events into fruition?
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YOU DONT NEED TO KNOW WHO WROTE IT TO DISCERN HIS STATE OF CONCIOUSNES. THE QUALITY OF AN INTRICITE PIECE OF LITERATURE SUGGESTS A PROFOUND MIND. ITS LIKE THIS: YOU READ LITERARY MASTERPIECES AND THEY HAVE A QUALITY ABOUT THEM. LORD OF THE RINGS FOR EXAMPLE, USES IMAGINATION A LOT WITH FICTICOUS DEVICES THAT MIMIC SPIRITUAL WARFARE. THE DRAMA OF REVELATIONS IS MORE PROFOUND AND AUTHORITIVE IN A JUSTIFIED WAY THAT IT EXCLUDES THE NOTION THAT IT COULD BE LITERARY BULLSHIT.
CERTAIN VERCES FOR EXAMPLE REV. 8.1. SAYS, "WHEN HE OPPENED UP THE SEVENTH SEAL, THERE WAS SILENCE IN HEAVEN FOR ABOUT HALF AN HOUR."
WHAT COULD THIS POSSIBLY MEAN. TRUELY I WOULD PROBABLY QUESTION ANYONE CLAIMING TO KNOW, BUT I WOULD NOT DOUBT THAT THE VERCE HAS MEANING. IT IS WHAT I WOULD CALL A "KNOWING DETAIL" MEANING IT HAS TO HAVE MEANING. ONE CAN NOT IMAGINGE SUCH A DETAIL WITHOUT KNOWING HEAVEN AND THE NATURE OF HEAVEN AND THE RELATIONSHIP HEAVEN HAS WITH GOD.
IN MY OPINION, THESE EVENTS ARE GOING TO TAKE PLACE WEATHER ILLUMINATI TRIES TO BRING THEM INTO FRUITION OR NOT. AS THE BOOK SAYS:
"I WARN EVERYONE WHO HEARS THE WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK; IF ANYONE ADDS ANYTHING TO THEM, GOD WILL ADD TO HIM THE PLAUGES DESCRIBED IN THIS BOOK. AND IF ANYONE TAKES WORDS AWAY FROM THIS BOOK OF PROPHECY, GOD WILL TAKE AWAY FROM HIM HIS SHARE IN THE TREE OF LIFE AND IN THE HOLY CITY WHICH ARE DESCRIBED IN THIS BOOK.
I DONT KNOW WHO WROTE REVELATIONS, BUT I DONT KNOW OF ANYONE CAPABLE OF WRITTING SUCH A WORK EITHER SO ITS A MUTE POINT. WHAT COULD THE POWERS THAT BE, BE TRYING TO BRING TO FRUITION BESIDES THE MARK OF THE BEAST AND THE ANTICHRIST? THEY CANT MAKE THE TRUMPETS BLOW, THAT HAPPENS WHEN IT IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN. ITS FUNNY THAT CROWLEY OR WHOEVER THE GUYS NAME WAS, WAS INVOLVED IN TRYING TO GIVE BIRTH TO THE WHORE OF BABYLON BY HAVING SEX WITH A CERTAIN WOMAN AND THE SAME GUY WORKED FOR NASA. IS THIS WHAT YOU ARE GETTING AT? I DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE YOU WOULD MEAN BY TRYING TO BRING THESE EVENTS INTO FRUITION BESIDES THE MULTIPLE WARS THAT ARE TAKING PLACE.
BUT WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVIATION IN TRYING TO PROVOKE SOMETHING THAT IS PREORDAINED TO HAPPEN INTO OCCURING?
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Quote:Other parts of the bible are more borring than a telephone book, but I recon that the bible's isreali history has been choosen by both god and man to be a symbolic starting point for modern history for a reason.
Why do you reckon this? What is your reasoning? It sounds to me, that you are postulating, based strictly on a pre-taught dogmatic theological view. Meaning, you assuming that this view is the correct one, because you have been taught that it was correct.
This is a problem for most Bible believers. I, on the other hand, have no such compulsion.
What were the Jews chosen for? What makes them chosen by God, outside of them and their authors saying so?
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Meaning, you assuming that this view is the correct one, because you have been taught that it was correct
ALTHOUGH IT MAY SEEM LIKE THIS IS THE CASE, LET ME ASSURE YOU IT IS NOT. I BELIEVE THIS BECAUSE THERE ARE NUMEROUS "DEALS WITH THE DEVIL" IN THE ABRAHAMIC LEGECY, THE STORY OF JOB, FOR INSTANCE, THE ALLOWENCE ALLAH GIVES IBLIS IN THE KORAN, AND THE ORDER GOD GIVES A CERTAIN BEAST TO ATACK THE EARTH AT A CERTAIN POINT IN THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS. THE CHURCH FATHERS TO ME, MUST HAVE HAD SOME REASONING FOR PICKING AND CHOOSING CERTAIN BOOKS FOR THE BIBLE'S INCLUSION, AND CERTAIN BOOKS TO BE EXCLUDED. PURPOSLY SHAPING THE FUTURE VIEW OF CHRIST. IN DOING SO, THEY WERE REENACTING THE DEEDS OF THE JEWS WHO PICKED AND CHOSE FROM OTHER PEOPLE'S MYTHOLOGHIES IN CREATING THEIR OWN.
IT WOULD NOT SURPRISE ME IF THESE BOOKS WERE COMPILED FOR THE PURPOSE OF ESTABLISHING A BEGINING AND AN ENDING WHERE THERE IS NONE FOR SOME MYSTICAL PURPOSE.
ON A CERTAIN MUSHROOM TRIP, I REMEMBER CONCIEVING OF THE WORDS, "IN THE BEGINING" AS BEING AN INCONCIEVABLY GREAT LIE, IN THAT THERE WAS OBVIOUSLY NO BEGINING TO BE FOUND IN THE RHELM I WAS IN. ON THAT SAME TRIP I CONCIDERED THE STRUCTURE OF THE CHURCH, AND FOUND THAT ANOTHER LIE WAS IMPLICIT IN POSITING A FIGURE INSIDE THE SANCTUARY CATHEDRAL LIKE A PRIEST OR A MAN. BUT KARMICLY WE ARE FORCED TO WORK OUT OWER DEBTS TO GOD, AND THIS SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER REQUIRES A CONTEXT OF TIME, MEANING A BEGINING AND AN END. THIS IS WHAT THE BIBLE REPRESENTS. IT MAY BE A FLAWED HISTORY, BUT IT IS THE FUCKED UP MAP TO OUR MATRIX.
What were the Jews chosen for? What makes them chosen by God, outside of them and their authors saying so?
THE FIRST SHALL BE LAST AND THE LAST SHALL BE FIRST. I FIND THEIR NARATIVE OF MISFORTUNE AND GRACE BELIEVABLE, AND THE SIMPLE FACT THAT THEY CHOSE TO BE CHOSEN BY GOD INDICATES A WORTHY HUMILITY BEFORE A GOD THEY HAVE ASSUREDLY STRUGGLED WITH. FURTHUR, THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS CONFIRMS THAT NOT ONLY ARE THE 7 CHRUCHES INVOLVED, BUT THE 12 TRIBES OF ISREAL ARE ALSO CRUCIAL AS IT SAYS IN REV. 7.9. AFTER THE 144OOO WHOSE FORHEADS ARE SEALED FROM THE TRIBES OF ISREAL ARE CALLED,
"AFTER THIS I LOOKED AND THERE BEFORE ME WAS A GREAT MULTITUDE THAT NO ONE COULD COUNT, FROM EFERY NATION, TRIBE , PEOPLE AND LANGUAGE, STANDING BEFORE THE THRONE AND IN FRONT OF THE LAMB."
THIS SUGESTS THAT THE JEWS ARE NOT JUST THE SEMETIC PEOPLE AS YOU CLAIM, BUT RATHER THOSE WHO HAVE "WASHED THIER ROBES AND MADE THEM WHITE IN THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB." (REV.7.14). I AM NOT IGNORENT ENOUGH TO ESPOUSE THE IDEA THAT THIS REFERS TO JUST CRISTIANS. I DONT KNOW WHO THIS REPRESENTS, BUT THE STORY SUGGESTS THAT THE 144000 OF THE 12 TRIBES OF ISREAL ARE NOT A RACIAL HERITAGE. I DONT EXACTLY KNOW HOW THIS RECONCILES WITH THE O.T., BUT I BELIEVE JESUS DOES, AS HE SAID, HE HAD COME TO FULFILL SCRIPTURE AND BTW I HAVE REASON TO BELIEVE IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH ATLANTIS MAYANS AMERICAN INDIANS AND KEMET.
THE BIBLE: SCRARY SUBJECT IN DEED
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Post by SAMURAI36 on Jun 27, 2009 8:27:38 GMT -5
IT IS INTERESTING FREDRICH NIETZCH IN HIS GENEOLOGY OF MORALS ASERTED THAT THE HEBREWS PULLED OF A HISTORICAL FIST IN THAT THEY REVERCE THE MORALITY IMPLICIT IN NATURE TO ONE THAT IS SUITABLE FOR A SERVILE CLASS OF PEOPLE, BY CLIAMING THAT BY THE FACT THAT THEY ARE OPPRESSED, THEY ARE THEREFORE SUPERIOR TO THEIR OPPRESSOR IN THE EYES OF AN ALLMIGHT GOD...BUT PERHAPS THEY ARE RIGHT IN THIS CONCLUSION. The problem with this, is that there's no proof historically that they were ever "oppressed" by anyone. But even within the story, they spent much more time as the oppressor, than as the oppressed. Thus, what does this "superior to their oppressor" stuff have to do with them invading whole societies, killing children, etc? Conservative estimates place the death toll at the hands of the Jews in the Bible, at close to a couple of a million, assuming that they themselves were not embellishing their own story. It's interesting how Jews chant "Never again", in regards to their atrocities, but turn a blind eye to the things they've done to others in history, even within their own book. Some would call the Holocaust a stroke of Karma. Uhmm, this is not "my view" it's simply what's in the Bible. DID THEY RAPE AND KILL PEOPLE IN THE BIBLE, OR NOT?  ? Your "refutation" is not simple, its simply absurd. The fact that they were rapists and murderers had nothing to do with "God", and that's the whole point. Your Volcano God YAHWEH might have been "Godly", but the Jews were not. Unless you are saying that it's "Godly" to rape women, and kill innocent children......?? I'm noticing your language here; "that I claim" these things were said. I'll return to my original question in this thread: How much of the Bible have you read? It's sad, that this question would be asked. Again, people start going into justification mode automatically, when it comes to the Bible.  Since when have CHILDREN "represented evil contextually" If we were talking about a modern-day scenario, where some religious believers said "GOD" told them to rape women and murder children, we would quickly dismiss such people as religious zealots or a cult. Sure, I can gladly point it out for you. But before I do, I'd like to point out that for all of your justification of the Bible, you are coming off like most Bible believers do, with not having really read it. I would admonish that if you are going to continue "believing" in the Bible, then you should completely read it from verse to verse, chapter to chapter, book to book, and cover to cover. Otherwise, the book is meaningless to and for you. But here's the examples [ With my commentary on the side]: Num 31:1 The Lord said to Moses, [incidentally, how doe the "Lord" speak to Moses exactly?] Num 31:2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.” [we never really learn why "vengeance is taken" against the Midianites. The only reason is perhaps given in Numbers 25:18] Num 31:3 So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites and to carry out the Lord's vengeance on them. ["The Lord's vengeance? For What? What did the Midianites do to "God"? Who knows, but I'll tell you what they did FOR Moses.... When his monkey ass was wandering around in the desert, they took him in, and the Chief of their tribe not only made him a priest, but the Chief also allowed him to marry his daughter.... Moses repaid him by coming back and killing them all.] Num 31:4 Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel.” Num 31:5 So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. [They sent 12K men for roughly a few thousand people? That wasn't "war", that was meant to be a slaughter and a plundering brigade.] Num 31:6 Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling. Num 31:7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. [Again, killing EVERY man is a slaughter.] Num 31:8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Num 31:9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. [Annnd, nobody sees where this is going, eh?]  Num 31:10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. [Clearly the intent was to wipe the Midianites out of existence. This was the Hebrew version of Hiroshima.] Num 31:11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, Num 31:12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho. Num 31:13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. Num 31:14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. Num 31:15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. Num 31:16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the Lord in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the Lord's people. Num 31:17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, [This speaks for itself, but I would like to hear your justification for it.] Num 31:18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. [Can you justify what this purpose for this is?] Num 31:19 “All of you who have killed anyone or touched anyone who was killed must stay outside the camp seven days. On the third and seventh days you must purify yourselves and your captives. Num 31:20 Purify every garment as well as everything made of leather, goat hair or wood.” Num 31:21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the soldiers who had gone into battle, “This is the requirement of the law that the Lord gave Moses: Num 31:22 Gold, silver, bronze, iron, tin, lead Num 31:23 and anything else that can withstand fire must be put through the fire, and then it will be clean. But it must also be purified with the water of cleansing. And whatever cannot withstand fire must be put through that water. Num 31:24 On the seventh day wash your clothes and you will be clean. Then you may come into the camp.” Num 31:25 The Lord said to Moses, [does Moses have a bluetooth speed dial link up with "The Lord"??] Num 31:26 “You and Eleazar the priest and the family heads of the community are to count all the people and animals that were captured. Num 31:27 Divide the spoils between the soldiers who took part in the battle and the rest of the community. Num 31:28 From the soldiers who fought in the battle, set apart as tribute for the Lord one out of every five hundred, whether persons, cattle, donkeys, sheep or goats. Num 31:29 Take this tribute from their half share and give it to Eleazar the priest as the Lord's part. [The "Lord" needs sheep and donkeys, and virgin women?? ] Num 31:30 From the Israelites' half, select one out of every fifty, whether persons, cattle, donkeys, sheep, goats or other animals. Give them to the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the Lord's tabernacle.” Num 31:31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses. Num 31:32 The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, Num 31:33 72,000 cattle, Num 31:34 61,000 donkeys Num 31:35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man. [32K women, for only 12K men? This is a rape orgy fest.] Num 31:36 The half share of those who fought in the battle was: 337,500 sheep, Num 31:37 of which the tribute for the Lord was 675; Num 31:38 36,000 cattle, of which the tribute for the Lord was 72; Num 31:39 30,500 donkeys, of which the tribute for the Lord was 61; Num 31:40 16,000 people, of which the tribute for the Lord was 32. [The "Lord" needs 16K people? To do what with?] Num 31:41 Moses gave the tribute to Eleazar the priest as the Lord's part, as the Lord commanded Moses. [LOL, so the priest takes "the Lord's Part", of course.  ] [/b] Num 31:42 The half belonging to the Israelites, which Moses set apart from that of the fighting men— Num 31:43 the community's half—was 337,500 sheep, Num 31:44 36,000 cattle, Num 31:45 30,500 donkeys Num 31:46 and 16,000 people. Num 31:47 From the Israelites' half, Moses selected one out of every fifty persons and animals, as the Lord commanded him, and gave them to the Levites, who were responsible for the care of the Lord's tabernacle. Num 31:48 Then the officers who were over the units of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—went to Moses Num 31:49 and said to him, “Your servants have counted the soldiers under our command, and not one is missing. Num 31:50 So we have brought as an offering to the Lord the gold articles each of us acquired—armlets, bracelets, signet rings, earrings and necklaces—to make atonement for ourselves before the Lord.” Num 31:51 Moses and Eleazar the priest accepted from them the gold—all the crafted articles. Num 31:52 All the gold from the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds that Moses and Eleazar presented as a gift to the Lord weighed 16,750 shekels. Num 31:53 Each soldier had taken plunder for himself. [Hmm, "plunder" interesting word choice here.] Num 31:54 Moses and Eleazar the priest accepted the gold from the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds and brought it into the Tent of Meeting as a memorial for the Israelites before the Lord.I'm sure this does not satisfy you, so let's look at another example: Jdg 21:1 The men of Israel had taken an oath at Mizpah: “Not one of us will give his daughter in marriage to a Benjamite.” Jdg 21:2 The people went to Bethel,[fn1] where they sat before God until evening, raising their voices and weeping bitterly. Jdg 21:3 “O LORD, the God of Israel,” they cried, “why has this happened to Israel? Why should one tribe be missing from Israel today?” Jdg 21:4 Early the next day the people built an altar and presented burnt offerings and fellowship offerings. Jdg 21:5 Then the Israelites asked, “Who from all the tribes of Israel has failed to assemble before the LORD?” For they had taken a solemn oath that anyone who failed to assemble before the LORD at Mizpah should certainly be put to death. Jdg 21:6 Now the Israelites grieved for their brothers, the Benjamites. “Today one tribe is cut off from Israel,” they said. Jdg 21:7 “How can we provide wives for those who are left, since we have taken an oath by the LORD not to give them any of our daughters in marriage?” [hmm, I wonder indeed... ] Jdg 21:8 Then they asked, “Which one of the tribes of Israel failed to assemble before the LORD at Mizpah?” They discovered that no one from Jabesh Gilead had come to the camp for the assembly. Jdg 21:9 For when they counted the people, they found that none of the people of Jabesh Gilead were there. Jdg 21:10 So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children. [Wow, what a surprise, killing more "Evil women and children. ] Jdg 21:11 “This is what you are to do,” they said. “Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin.” [*Vomits*  ] Jdg 21:12 They found among the people living in Jabesh Gilead four hundred young women who had never slept with a man, and they took them to the camp at Shiloh in Canaan. Jdg 21:13 Then the whole assembly sent an offer of peace to the Benjamites at the rock of Rimmon. Jdg 21:14 So the Benjamites returned at that time and were given the women of Jabesh Gilead who had been spared. But there were not enough for all of them. [So let's be clear about this... This woman's whole family has been killed, and she is "given" to some strange murdering man. Do you think that the sex between to the 2 is going to be consentual? You think she would be like "ooh, you just killed my father and brothers... You sexy thang you... C'mere...." If she does have sex with this man, it's only out of fear from being killed herself. Either way you slice it, it's still RAPE. Now, excuse me, as I go vomit some more... ] Jdg 21:15 The people grieved for Benjamin, because the LORD had made a gap in the tribes of Israel. Jdg 21:16 And the elders of the assembly said, “With the women of Benjamin destroyed, how shall we provide wives for the men who are left? [hoo, boy.... ] Jdg 21:17 The Benjamite survivors must have heirs,” they said, “so that a tribe of Israel will not be wiped out. [Yeah, Lord forbid that THEY be wiped out... So let's go wipe someone else out instead. ] Jdg 21:18 We can't give them our daughters as wives, since we Israelites have taken this oath: ‘Cursed be anyone who gives a wife to a Benjamite.’ [Wow so, you are worried about them. but not so much that you risk a "curse", eh? ] Jdg 21:19 But look, there is the annual festival of the LORD in Shiloh, to the north of Bethel, and east of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem, and to the south of Lebonah.” Jdg 21:20 So they instructed the Benjamites, saying, “Go and hide in the vineyardsa nd watch. [So now these men are stalkers, huh??] Jdg 21:21 When the girls of Shiloh come out to join in the dancing, then rush from the vineyards and each of you seize a wife from the girls of Shiloh and go to the land of Benjamin. [*uurrrrkkkkk* ]Jdg 21:22 When their fathers or brothers complain to us, we will say to them, ‘Do us a kindness by helping them, because we did not get wives for them during the war, and you are innocent, since you did not give your daughters to them.’ ” [Wow, these men sound like..... Well, like YOU, with all the justifying going on. So, these men are "innocent", because they didn't help, but are they not just as guilty, for not stopping it??] Jdg 21:23 So that is what the Benjamites did. While the girls were dancing, each man caught one and carried her off to be his wife. Then they returned to their inheritance and rebuilt the towns and settled in them. [*urrkkk* ] Jdg 21:24 At that time the Israelites left that place and went home to their tribes and clans, each to his own inheritance. Jdg 21:25 In those days Israel had no king; everyone did as he saw fit. [Listen to this nonsense, more justification. They did as the "Lord" told them to do.] This is your Bible, and these are your "Chosen People". Bear in mind, that there are nearly a dozen other examples of rape in the Bible alone. Oh, and killing children.... I've not even mentioned the verse where "God" commanded a man to bash a child's head in with a rock, because the child was making fun of the man. I'm not going to point out any more verses to you. It's clear that you have not read your Bible, and you need to read it from beginning to end, if you are going to continue believing in it. |
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Post by SAMURAI36 on Jun 27, 2009 10:28:11 GMT -5
ALTHOUGH THE PHYSICS OF THE STORY, I ASSUME YOU MEAN NOAH, No, I mean the aspect of the Ark, and the non-sense with all the animals. The difference is that with the Mythological stories, that are just that: MYTHS. Do you or do you not, believe that the story of Noah and the Ark was a historical event? I would suggest that you familiarize yourself with these texts fully, before you comment on them. The similarities between the Sumerian and the Talmudic begin and end with the flood aspect. In fact, it's interesting that NOAH is the central character in the Biblical Flood story, and one of the central characters in the Sumerian flood is NUAH, the Goddess of Rain. I would have no problem acknowledging the symbolism of both stories, except: #1 If the Sumerian story is far older, what use do we have for the more recent, and far more corrupted story? #2 You are purposely overlooking the racism of the Biblical/Talmudic story. Yes, one is racist, the other is not. Beyond this, what other value does the Biblical story have? Who is "they"? And why is "World Order" needed? LOLOLOLOL!! Are you serious?? A "glaring mistake" only suggests that the author is stupid, and that I have no use for whatever he writes. And the "mistake" is there, for the purpose of pointing out how absurd the author's mindset is.... Max Merc---Uhh, Harth Hamilton pointed out that the purpose of this text is for entertainment and politics. For me, it's an example of what NOT to believe in or follow. All this says is that they knew of the Tree, but had no clue about it's purpose and nature. You know of the pyramids, do you know of their purpose and meaning? If not, then why should anyone think that there's more to you on some esoteric level? The important fact here, is that the Tree was NEVER mentioned ever again in the Bible. Thus, the only significance for it, is that it does have some sort of significance, but not necessarily for neither the writers, nor the characters in their story. It would perhaps, if the story had actually worked that way. I know you haven't really read the Bible, but at least you could read the verses that I have supplied above. The nations had developed "High Culture" while having different languages, and not in spite of them. Are you sure you are reading the same verses that I am? Egypt, Sumer, and Canaan had all developed as High Cultures, and they all had different langauges, and different dialects within each. What's your justification for this? NO, what it implies is that "GOD" had to "come down" (from where? I thought "God" was everywhere), and "see what they are doing". God has to put a halt on natural human progress, which he himself had given them the ability to do. He didn't want us to reach "his level". God can stop progress and growth, but he can condone acts of savagery, such as raping women. Your justification of this stuff is becoming entertaining. I was wondering when you were gonna bring up this justification. I don't subscribe to any such notion. These books appear exactly as they do in the Barasith. That means that the "switching of chapters" had taken place from the earliest of times. Possibly even the original author had done it themselves.... Which continually implies that they were either stupid, or purposefully misleading and deceptive to the reader. Either way, I could care less. 1st Corinthians 13:11. Uhmm, did you just try to justify the idol worship of a volcano...? Really, is that so..... Of course not.... That NEVER happens in Hawaii. All of which are equally absurd and perposterous. Huh? The Volcano doesn't, and probably doesn't care about people one way or the other, as demonstrated in ALL natural disasters. But the writer certianly does. Look how much the author of Psalms dedicates to "His enemies": Psa 3:7 Arise, O LORD; save me, O my God: for thou hast smitten all mine enemies [upon] the cheek bone; thou hast broken the teeth of the ungodly. Psa 5:8 Lead me, O LORD, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies; make thy way straight before my face. Psa 6:7 Mine eye is consumed because of grief; it waxeth old because of all mine enemies. Psa 6:10 Let all mine enemies be ashamed and sore vexed: let them return [and] be ashamed suddenly. Psa 7:6 Arise, O LORD, in thine anger, lift up thyself because of the rage of mine enemies: and awake for me [to] the judgment [that] thou hast commanded. Psa 8:2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. Psa 9:3 When mine enemies are turned back, they shall fall and perish at thy presence. Psa 10:5 His ways are always grievous; thy judgments [are] far above out of his sight: [as for] all his enemies, he puffeth at them. Psa 17:9 From the wicked that oppress me, [from] my deadly enemies, [who] compass me about. Psa 18:1 [[To the chief Musician, of David, the servant of the LORD, who spake unto the LORD the words of this song in the day [that] the LORD delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul: And he said,]] I will love thee, O LORD, my strength.
Psa 18:3 I will call upon the LORD, [who is worthy] to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.
Psa 18:37 I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed.
Psa 18:40 Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; that I might destroy them that hate me.
Psa 18:48 He delivereth me from mine enemies: yea, thou liftest me up above those that rise up against me: thou hast delivered me from the violent man.
Psa 21:8 Thine hand shall find out all thine enemies: thy right hand shall find out those that hate thee.
Psa 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Psa 25:2 O my God, I trust in thee: let me not be ashamed, let not mine enemies triumph over me.
Psa 25:19 Consider mine enemies; for they are many; and they hate me with cruel hatred.
Psa 27:2 When the wicked, [even] mine enemies and my foes, came upon me to eat up my flesh, they stumbled and fell.
Psa 27:6 And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD.
Psa 27:11 Teach me thy way, O LORD, and lead me in a plain path, because of mine enemies.
Psa 27:12 Deliver me not over unto the will of mine enemies: for false witnesses are risen up against me, and such as breathe out cruelty.
Psa 31:11 I was a reproach among all mine enemies, but especially among my neighbours, and a fear to mine acquaintance: they that did see me without fled from me.
Psa 31:15 My times [are] in thy hand: deliver me from the hand of mine enemies, and from them that persecute me.
Psa 35:19 Let not them that are mine enemies wrongfully rejoice over me: [neither] let them wink with the eye that hate me without a cause.
Psa 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD [shall be] as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
Psa 38:19 But mine enemies [are] lively, [and] they are strong: and they that hate me wrongfully are multiplied.
Psa 41:2 The LORD will preserve him, and keep him alive; [and] he shall be blessed upon the earth: and thou wilt not deliver him unto the will of his enemies.
Psa 41:5 Mine enemies speak evil of me, When shall he die, and his name perish?
Psa 42:10 [As] with a sword in my bones, mine enemies reproach me; while they say daily unto me, Where [is] thy God?
Psa 44:5 Through thee will we push down our enemies: through thy name will we tread them under that rise up against us.
Psa 44:7 But thou hast saved us from our enemies, and hast put them to shame that hated us.
Psa 45:5 Thine arrows [are] sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; [whereby] the people fall under thee.
Psa 54:5 He shall reward evil unto mine enemies: cut them off in thy truth.
Psa 54:7 For he hath delivered me out of all trouble: and mine eye hath seen [his desire] upon mine enemies.
Psa 56:2 Mine enemies would daily swallow [me] up: for [they be] many that fight against me, O thou most High.
Psa 56:9 When I cry [unto thee], then shall mine enemies turn back: this I know; for God [is] for me.
Psa 59:1 [[To the chief Musician, Altaschith, Michtam of David; when Saul sent, and they watched the house to kill him.]] Deliver me from mine enemies, O my God: defend me from them that rise up against me.
Psa 59:10 The God of my mercy shall prevent me: God shall let me see [my desire] upon mine enemies.
Psa 60:12 Through God we shall do valiantly: for he [it is that] shall tread down our enemies.
Psa 66:3 Say unto God, How terrible [art thou in] thy works! through the greatness of thy power shall thine enemies submit themselves unto thee.
Psa 68:1 [[To the chief Musician, A Psalm [or] Song of David.]] Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.
Psa 68:21 But God shall wound the head of his enemies, [and] the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.
Psa 68:23 That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of [thine] enemies, [and] the tongue of thy dogs in the same.
Psa 69:4 They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, [being] mine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored [that] which I took not away.
Psa 69:18 Draw nigh unto my soul, [and] redeem it: deliver me because of mine enemies.
Psa 71:10 For mine enemies speak against me; and they that lay wait for my soul take counsel together,
Psa 72:9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.
Psa 74:4 Thine enemies roar in the midst of thy congregations; they set up their ensigns [for] signs.
Psa 74:23 Forget not the voice of thine enemies: the tumult of those that rise up against thee increaseth continually.
Psa 78:53 And he led them on safely, so that they feared not: but the sea overwhelmed their enemies.
Psa 78:66 And he smote his enemies in the hinder parts: he put them to a perpetual reproach.
Psa 80:6 Thou makest us a strife unto our neighbours: and our enemies laugh among themselves.
Psa 81:14 I should soon have subdued their enemies, and turned my hand against their adversaries.
Psa 83:2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
Psa 89:10 Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm.
Psa 89:42 Thou hast set up the right hand of his adversaries; thou hast made all his enemies to rejoice.
Psa 89:51 Wherewith thine enemies have reproached, O LORD; wherewith they have reproached the footsteps of thine anointed.
Psa 92:9 For, lo, thine enemies, O LORD, for, lo, thine enemies shall perish; all the workers of iniquity shall be scattered.
Psa 92:11 Mine eye also shall see [my desire] on mine enemies, [and] mine ears shall hear [my desire] of the wicked that rise up against me.
Psa 97:3 A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about.
Psa 102:8 Mine enemies reproach me all the day; [and] they that are mad against me are sworn against me.
Psa 105:24 And he increased his people greatly; and made them stronger than their enemies.
Psa 106:11 And the waters covered their enemies: there was not one of them left.
Psa 106:42 Their enemies also oppressed them, and they were brought into subjection under their hand.
Psa 108:13 Through God we shall do valiantly: for he [it is that] shall tread down our enemies.
Psa 110:1 [] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Psa 110:2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
Psa 112:8 His heart [is] established, he shall not be afraid, until he see [his desire] upon his enemies.
Psa 119:98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they [are] ever with me.
Psa 119:139 My zeal hath consumed me, because mine enemies have forgotten thy words.
Psa 119:157 Many [are] my persecutors and mine enemies; [yet] do I not decline from thy testimonies.
Psa 127:5 Happy [is] the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.
Psa 132:18 His enemies will I clothe with shame: but upon himself shall his crown flourish.
Psa 136:24 And hath redeemed us from our enemies: for his mercy [endureth] for ever.
Psa 138:7 Though I walk in the midst of trouble, thou wilt revive me: thou shalt stretch forth thine hand against the wrath of mine enemies, and thy right hand shall save me.
Psa 139:20 For they speak against thee wickedly, [and] thine enemies take [thy name] in vain.
Psa 139:22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
Psa 143:9 Deliver me, O LORD, from mine enemies: I flee unto thee to hide me.
Psa 143:12 And of thy mercy cut off mine enemies, and destroy all them that afflict my soul: for I [am] thy servant.
You don't see a pattern here? David (or whomever wrote this) was obsessed with "mine enemies". He mentions his enemies in almost every other verse. In fact, he mentions his enemies more than he mentions God... And, most times, he's only mentioning God, for the purpose of rescuing him from his enemies.
Why would one person have such an obsession with his enemies? Could he possibly have that many enemies to be worried about?
The answer is yes. David had done so much wickedness to people that it ain't even funny.... More rape, more murder, more plundering, etc. Let's not talk about how he conspired to have his general killed, just to get his wife, whom David said was "teasing him on the roof".
This is what you got "wisdom" from???
The entire Bible is about creating fear, and not transcending it. Fear of God, is basically fearing the Sword.
There are numerous verses that demonstrate how "God's Chosen" went about and killed non-believers, but only before they gave them the ultimatum of converting to the God of Israel.
Uhmm, okay.
Nope, sure don't.
Of course, I'm noting your sarcasm, and adding to it with my own. You can seek to find all sorts of esoterum from this, the fact remains that these provincial minded Jews had a gross propensity for heinous acts, none of which support all this "Kundalini Raising" that you are imagining was going on.
You really sound desparate here. In the Hebrew text, the term used is "ground", in a literal sense. Thus, the ground is literally shaking, because of a natural phenomenon.
What's the difference? The words are used interchangeably thru-out the entire text, and even within the same verses. You've never seen people use such terms differently in contemporary writing?
You've never seen a novelist use the terms "boy", "youth", "adolescent", "whelp", etc used in the same paragraph?
I recognize no such thing. All devoted religious believers demonstrate "faithfulness". But to what end? Didn't the followers of Jim Jones demonstrate it? And the Islamic Jihad Bombers?
Here's the unspoken point here, that I've purposefully danced around (and one that I know you are not going to mention): How far from "Volcano Worship", of a stretch is it, that we can't see these "Faithful worshippers" tossing people ("mine enemies") in as sacrifices?
That's only because you only wish to continue operating from the postulation that there's some sort of spiritual aspect to all of this.
Yep, especially if one is looking for "mine enemies" to be destroyed.
More than you might think.... I just don't agree.
The problem for me, is, despite all the evidence given, and even with you admitting the volcano allusion with this one verse, it's interesting watching you evade the obvious, in favor of the unlikely.
You seem to have an emotional tie to the dogma of the Bible, which is quite counterproductive for the level of spiritual development that you claim to seek.
PEACE |
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Post by SAMURAI36 on Jun 27, 2009 11:34:13 GMT -5
The Book of Revelations: Honestly, I don't get your point for mentioning these books and stories. They bear very little significant value.... Certainly not on the level of some "high science esoterum". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire so you can become rich and white clothes to wear , so you can coveryour shamefull nakedness, and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see."REV 3.18 Cute. The major, and continuously prevailing difference, is that the Ancient Chinese Taoists were not rapists and murderers, like the Jews and Hebrews were. The issue I have with this, is, and even you have admitted to this here, that you can find a much more pure source for these teachings, than the the Bible. Why buy processed food, when you can buy 100% organic, for the same price? I've already covered this "striking resemblance". Are you not aware of the Global agenda at work, and how it started with religion? You (and other Bible believers) make the relationship between Revelations and the current events of the world sound like they are mutually exclusive from each other. The Illuminati (for lack of a better name) had been entangled in religious organizations since its inception. How hard is it to conceptualize that these secret groups have read and mastered these texts, to the point of using the ideas therein to manipulate the masses thru-out the ages? I have an issue with elevating the Bible to the same level of Qi-Qong and Native Shamanism. The former is not on the same level as the latter 2. Where was the practice of chanting (meditational)healing in the Bible, as it is with the Shaman way? And I'm not talking about Jesus healing the sick or raising the dead either. One isolated instance, in what amounts contextually to thousands of years of it not happening consistently... And, when it happened, the "Priesthood" abhored it. I wonder why that was.... Where was the practice of things like martial arts, acupuncture, trance meditation, sexual tantra, etc in the Bible, as it was with the Taoist ways? Finding one or two verses that fit both.... Well, I'm sure if you swing the bat often enough, you are bound to hit the ball. Never mind your strike-out rate though. That's merely because the concept of evil is one that's created within the social paradigm that belief in the Bible has created. Evil as a concept, does not exist, simply because the Bible says that it does. That's the problem in trying to shoe-horn all these systems together, when they have just as much different (if not moreso) as they do similar. Eastern spirituality is not bogged down with concepts of establishing morality thru "Monotheism" (an oxymoron within itself), thus morality is developed internally, as opposed to externally (and thus to failure) as with the Abrahamic legacy. Eastern spirituality has been working significantly in the past several thousand years for its adherents, whilst Abrahamism in all its forms has been failing miserably since it's inception. As a result, people like you are trying to find new ways to identify with it, because the old Orthodoxy clearly doesn't work, as if it ever did. For instance, I constantly hear women talking some non-sense about how they want to be in a "Biblical relationship", or find a mate "the Godly way". This is all sorts of a joke, because if they had clearly read their Bible (which we see that most people don't), unfettered by the social bias that they have been bombarded with since youth, they'd see how "Biblical relationships" were formed in the context of the story, and perhaps want no part of that. However, these same women that complain about domestic violence, rape, infidelity, spousal abuse, pedophilia, in the modern world, turn a totally blind eye to it, as they (don't) turn te page of their "Holy Scripture" Pardon me, while I surpress my gag reflex. It's interesting that you can fathom all of this, yet not see how Revelations (or any other part of the Bible, for that matter) plays a part in it. The fact that you can articulate this (and quite well, might I add), shows that you at least see it. But your choice to remain fettered to it, demonstrates your emotional and perhaps pyschological tether to it, despite seeing it. How is Christ a "true God" A true God of what, and whom? Christ is yet another imaginary figure, from a long list of imaginary figures that comprises the Bible. Wow... I'm not a fan of the concept that any evil is "necessary". That too is Biblical/Abrahamic in concept. Thus that sums up my choice to throw the Biblical Baby out with the Bathwater. If I have to make as many excuses as you have to justify my belief in a system, then the first thing I must examine, is not the religion, but rather myself. That's why I no longer consider myself Muslim or Islamic. I could not reconcile the horrid stupidity that I found within Islamic theology, any more than I could with the Bible. There are aspects of this that I could agree with, but then there are aspects that are reaching. I've seen AMIR FATIR do alot of reaching to justify stuff in the past, and this is no exception. SIMON = SEMEN??? SIMON does not have any etymological correlation with SEMEN, whatsoever. I've seen that sort of deceptive wordplay both create and destroy entire religions. I That's a poor argument, and poor inductive reasoning. Especially considering that most people opt to reverse the statement in their favor. Christians pride themselves in saying that the brutality of the OT is replace by "Grace and Mercy" in the NT. However, I've seen the same level of brutality in the NT as well. So, with both Testaments, I guess everybody is screwed. PEACE |
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Post by SAMURAI36 on Jun 27, 2009 13:08:21 GMT -5
Why? How did you arrive at these conclusions? So, the Jews, being shephards and nomads, when they said "valleys and pastures and mountains", they couldn't have simply meant...... "Valleys and pastures and mountains"? --------------------------------------------------------------------- HOW DID I ARRIVE AT THESE CONCLUSIONS? I WILL TELL YOU EXACTLY, AS FOR A MINUTE I DIDNT KNOW AND I THOUGHT I JUST MADE THE CONECTION, BUT ACTUALLY I HAVE A GOOD REASON. I HAD A COUPLE BOOKS ON QI GONG, ALL BY DR. YANG JWING MING, AND IN ONE OF THEM, POSSIBLY EMBRYONIC BREATHING, HE TALKS ABOUT HOW THE FAMOUS TREASTSE ON DAOISM, THE TAO DE CHING IS ACTUALLY A TEACHING ABOUT QIGONG IN VAILED LANGUAGE, AND ALL THE OBSERVATIONS ABOUT NATURE OUTSIDE OF THE BODY, ARE REALLY ABOUT THE ORGANS AND GLANDS OF THE HUMAN. SO I APPLIED THE SAME THEORY TO THE OBSERVATIONS OF NATURE FOUND IN THE BIBLE AND THE SEEM VALID. And what is the justification that you have cooked up for all the raping and killing? That's the problem that I have: how the author can demonstrate all this Chi knowledge, yet none of the characters actually demonstrate it in the story that is being written by the author. In fact, the author writes them in the most horrid of circumstances. Why? That might account for how when "The Lord told Moses to rape, beat and kill women", then his was hearing a voice from "within himself". In otherwords, you are arriving at the place where I've already been, but that you seem content to dance around, which is that these Bible stories demonstrate varying degrees of schizophrenia: that textbook " voices in my head, God told me to do it" scenario. Why couldn't Moses and the boys "QI-GONG" their way out of the darkness? If you can get all of these truths from QI-GONG, and in its purest form, why even bother with the Bible? That's my prevailing question. We should be engaging in a lengthy discourse about QI-GONG, rather than wasting our time going in circles talking about a book chock-full of inconsistencies. Yes, it does. But the problem persists, that the moral(ity) of any story is only demonstrated, when the character demonstrating the moral actually achieves it. Moses, Aaron, Joshua, David, Solomon, and a few others all claimed that "God" (the voices in their head??) told them to rape, murder, steal, etc. They prayed, meditated to, and all out beseeched this "God" to do all of these things. Thus, why on earth should I be following the "God" that they followed? No wonder the postmodern world is engulfed in hate... They've been following the Bible to one extent or another. Yes, but you're comparing eggs and eggplants here. We clearly see where meditating led these Bible characters. This is the part that you continue to omit. As I'd said previously, if you continue to swing the bat, you're bound to hit the ball. That doesn't make you worthy of playing in the majors, though. And I'm nearly positive that neither RZA nor GZA learned these wisdoms from the Bible. They call themselves "Wu-Tang" for a reason. Olive oil is not semen either. However, nice way to take the verse out of context. That's a devious ploy, that I've watched big-baller preachers do from the pulpit.... Job 29:1 Job continued his discourse: Job 29:2 Job 29:3 when his lamp shone upon my head and by his light I walked through darkness! Job 29:4 Oh, for the days when I was in my prime, when God's intimate friendship blessed my house, Job 29:5 when the Almighty was still with me and my children were around me, Job 29:6 when my path was drenched with cream and the rock poured out for me streams of olive oil. Job 29:7 “When I went to the gate of the city and took my seat in the public square, Job 29:8 the young men saw me and stepped aside and the old men rose to their feet; Job 29:9 the chief men refrained from speaking and covered their mouths with their hands; Job 29:10 the voices of the nobles were hushed, and their tongues stuck to the roof of their mouths. Job 29:11 Whoever heard me spoke well of me, and those who saw me commended me, Job 29:12 because I rescued the poor who cried for help, and the fatherless who had none to assist him. Besides the fact that your example doesn't actually fit the principles of QI-GONG (find me a QI-GONG practicioner who would " drench the ground with their semen", and I've got some Arctic swamp water to sell you), you are quite comfortable omitting the fact that this wreaks of local custom. A casual search will turn up basic religious info about OLIVE OIL, yet you are far more content to dream up all sorts of "esoteric" meanings for it. This is why I have said previously, that a greater understanding of the author is needed, in order to understand his intent. We/you know nothing about the author of this text, and thus have no insight into his thought processes. Yet you deem it fit to attribute some esoteric mindset to him, and thereby to his story. There is no reason to believe such.... Especially when the highest of Jewish priesthood practiced no such level of mysticism, neither within the context of the story, or in the historical world at large. Lest we neglect the fact that each story that the author(s) wrote, whenever they encountered cultures and societies that practiced mysticism (Kemet, Nubia, Canaan, Sumer, Babylon, India, etc) they demonstrated disdain, wanting to kill those believers and abolish their religions, for being "heathens and non-believers". Why then, would they practice the various aspects of these cultures, yet kill the original followers for doing the same? None of this matches your Taoist interpretation of Biblical text and history. You're reaching again. You are also supposed to do the very same, when a greater nobleman enters the room. Job 29:9 the chief men refrained from speaking and covered their mouths with their hands; Job 29:10 the voices of the nobles were hushed, and their tongues stuck to the roof of their mouths.If this is merely the "voices in his head", then the answer should have been as obvious, as the question was redundant. I would agree with this, except: #1 that technically, these churches were not in Asia, they were in Europe. #2 in the context of the story, Paul was systematically abolishing esoteric practices thru-out those lands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It's not a matter of "lying". I don't think that AMIR FATIR, or even that you yourself, are lying about any of this. There is nothing to "lie" about. I just don't agree with his, and thus your perspectives on these matters. But your wording above is troubling... It sounds like you are prepared to take his word for this (or anything else) simply because he is AMIR FATIR. I don't trust my spiritual growth to anyone, save myself. That's not to say that I cannot (and have, and will continue to) learn from others, but just that only I have the final word. Who knows? Perhaps that's a convo for just you and him. I've already statement my perspective on the historical aspects of Revelations. You'll have to take it or leave it. That's grossly untrue. The state of consciousness intended within the story is most definitely contingent upon the state of consciousness of the writer. And I can demonstrate that YOU yourself know this to be true.... You have decided to consult with AMIR FATIR, rather than some fat, greazy red neck preacher from Alabama.... Why? Because you've established AMIR's state of consciousness with regards to these matters, at least to a satisfactory degree. Adversely, you pretty much know what to expect from the fat greazy reverend as well, which is why you don't go to them. As such, this is equally important when gleaning "wisdom" from these texts. You are missing huge chunks of vital info, that makes your research incomplete, and thus your conclusions premature. Now granted, you can glean whatever state of consciousness from the text that you want; that is most certainly your perrogative. But that has nothing to do with the original author's intent, which I maintain that you don't know. How is profundity determined? An author that doesn't know how many legs a bug has, is profound in your view? I'm perpetually amazeds as to how you can continue to compare Eastern texts with the Bible.... It's like comparing sugar and shit, in my view. For that matter, comparing LOTR to the Bible, is like comparing sugar to shit. Who's to say that it's not casual hyperbole? How is this no different than if I were to say: " Yo sunn, I gots rhymes for days!!" I could literally mean that I have so many rhymes that I could start rapping, and could keep rapping for days.... Or, and I'm sure you know, given our mutual affinity for Hip-Hop and Wu-Tang, that it's probably just a slang term, meaning " I can rhyme very well". And that serves my point from earlier; you have to admit that you don't know what this means (and have yet to attribute some mystical value to it, despite your desire to do so), because you're missing key info to the discernment process. You don't know who the author was, and thus have no knowledge of is own personal motivations.... For all we know, he could have been hyped on on whatever the coke of his day was. How do you know that the "Illuminati" didn't have a hand in writing the book to start with? Conceivably, the Illuminati has been around, for at least as long as this text has been. It's clear that "Paul, Mark, John, Luke, David, Moses, Solomon, etc" are all psuedonyms, perhaps even code names. It's highly unlikely that the author of these books wrote stories about themselves, but then wrote their deaths into the story. Deuteronomy ends with Chapter 34, but Moses clearly dies in Chapter 32. You know any of the basic info needed to create basic theories. You don't know: Who wrote it? Who was it written to and for: What was the purpose of writing it? When was it written? Where was it written? Why was it written? How was it written? I can tell you as least some of the W's in regards to the PERT EM HERU, and a few other scriptures. You've spent this entire series of posts, comparing it to various Taoist writings, did you not? There are numerous other scriptures that are superlative to anything in the Bible. They taste great, without the rape/murder filler. How's about, confusion and distraction of the masses, which has been their agenda all along? You're joking, yes? They can't make TRUMPETS blow? I would then, suggest that you get up on some of the documentaries that we've been discussing in other sections of this site. The Illuminati (or whatever they are called) have been very busy bees, as of late, and the religious ties to these agendas are quite obvious... As obvious as the rapes and murders in the Bible, that you've been missing when your mystic Bibilcal pages were stuck together. It's only "preordained" because you read it in a book, of whom you've no idea who wrote it. You spend alot of time engaging in dangerous postulations, my friend. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote:Other parts of the bible are more borring than a telephone book, but I recon that the bible's isreali history has been choosen by both god and man to be a symbolic starting point for modern history for a reason. So in other words, this seems like the case, because it actually is. You don't know if the Church Fathers "picked certain books", or if they actually wrote them themselves. You don't know any of the 5W's (and 1H, LOL) about any of this. All you know about it, is what these men themselves informed the masses. The Council of Nicea was not a public forum. The believers of the day had no say-so in what they wanted to believe. You trust the "Church fathers", their reasoning, their intent, their agenda.... Why? What do you know about them specifically? What happened to the other books that they omitted from the Bible? Even Acts 19:19 mentioned that books were burned. There are "Holy Scriptures" that were written as late as the 3rd Century, AD. Wasn't the first Nicean council convened in 325 AD? My friend, the only thing that distinguishes you from the common Church goer, is tha you have added a mystical twist to the Bible. Would it surprise you that these books were simply written to control the masses, and nothing more? For the sake of this discussion, this is info that I'd prefer not to know. All this is great... However, who's to say that it's the only map, if it's even a map to begin with? All over the planet, people are transcending this fucked up world, without any use of the Bible, whatsoever. You mention all this Taoist and QI-QONG stuff, but in the end, default right back to the most fucked up of all spiritual ideas.... Why? Why is their story more believable than anyone elses? And what "misfortune"?? Clearly you are not reading the Bible. Do you mean the misfortuned that they had endlessly inflicted upon others? Your interpretation of the Bible is jaded and romantacized, but typical of most people. They chose themselves, because of their arrogance and ego. All other cultures, when writing about these "Hebrews/Hyksos/Hurrians/Hittites/Hapiru/Habbatu", they called them liars, thieves, rapists, murderers, ignorant, etc. You have accepted their story about themselves, without looking at any surrounding or corroborating information about them. That is truly sad, my friend. Wow, you are hodge-podging so many ideas together, that it's making your own head spin, let alone mine. Most of what you'd said in this last statement, are things I've already commented on. However, throwing in all sorts of made up stuff such as ATLANTIS, along with Jesus, the imaginary cousin of both The Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. I guess fiction is sometimes stranger than truth. Only if you actually believe in it.... However I think it's interesting to note your Freudian play on words here: THE BIBLE: SCRARY SUBJECT IN DEEDI don't know if you know, but "In deed" is not the same as "indeed". |
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Post by Dr. D-Resperatation on Jun 27, 2009 15:36:15 GMT -5
First off, I appologize for my spelling but please dont ridicule it, it has been a problem for me as long as I can remember and is basicallly a hopeless situation.
Now, let me hit you with something you probably would not expect.
Your primary problem with the Bible is the wicked savegry evidenced in killing and raping, correct? How can such deeds be congruent with a moral authority?
What you are not aware of is that the problem you have with the people of isreal has allready been resolved in the Abrahamic tradition.
Read the Koran Surah (18.64-81). Understand the moral of this story is that divine wisdom is not always comprehncible to those with limited knowlege, and I would conjecture that there is probably some symbolic meaning to the different reasons the slave of Allah provides for his unprompted acts of manevolence and benevolence.
There are two conclusions you can arive at. The first is that Moses was instructed by one who he had to trust beyond the limits of his own understanding, for the rational reason that this slave of Allah was more exalted in the ways of the Lord. He was a higher being by virtue of his knowlege.
This potentially explains the acts of violence you cite as acts commited in justifiable faith, as the Sura demonstrates that Moses has been taught that his moral instincts are not reliable, and that he must not refrain from severity and kindness due to personal sentiments. Thus, for whatever reason, the pillage for the sake of the tribe of Benjemen may well be a matter of importance beyond your comprehension.
And this compares to the Kung Fu, (Qi GONG) tale mentioned in Kill Bill but atributed to the Shaolin and the Pai Mai, where the Abbot of one temple slughters hundreds of monks from the other temple for the slight offence that he percieved in a Head nod. In both of these examples the integrity of the culture's teachings is seen as more important than human life.
Look again at the last verce of the Surra, "and I did it not upon my own command. Such is the interpretation of that wherewith thou couldst not bear." This establishes a moral authority that overrides the ethics you are assuming when you judge the Hebrews.
Of cource, you could say that this Koran verce was just included years later to justify the charachter of Moses so that the tradition can be continous. And I can not argue with you there, it is a matter of personal belief.
But let me point out that the story of Joseph also demonstrates a similar theme, in that all of the misfortions that befall Joseph only serve to fullfill the prophecy in an unlikely sequence, demonstrateing that faith in Gods providence trancends mundane understanding.
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Post by SAMURAI36 on Jun 27, 2009 16:15:59 GMT -5
First off, I appologize for my spelling but please dont ridicule it, it has been a problem for me as long as I can remember and is basicallly a hopeless situation. Not at all; it hasn't been my intent to do that. I've taken notice to it, and have been adjusting my frame accordingly. My last statement was not about the spelling of your words, but more about the difference in meaning. That's one thing out of many, but yes, so let's roll with that for a moment. This was a good story, and admittedly full of wisdom. However, problems arise from this. #1) It's not just the "People of Israel" that I have a problem with, but also the "People of Ishmael" as well. The Abrahamic legacy is not limited to the Jews. #2) Even if this story were to serve as justification for the actions in the Bible, not all Abrahamic people would believe it, because their dogma would not allow for them to even read it. #3) Referring back to #1 here, despite this story, the Arabs under the Islamic legacy were prone to the same savagery and stupidity that the Jews were. Please understand something; it's not necessarily the people that I take grievance with, but rather the philosophical and psychological programing which compells them. People always say: " it's not the religion, it's the followers that's the problem". I vehemently disagree. When it can be pointed out how the aspects of the religion match the actions and behaviors of the followers almost identically, then what is to be said of the religions Lest we forget (or in your case, perhaps never knew), that the Qur'an states to kill non-believers, and beat women as well. Are you asserting that the KILL BILL tale was taken from QI-GONG directly? If so, I'd like some references for that, please. If not, then mentioning a movie produced by a man (Q. Tarentino), who doesn't practice these systems in the least, is of no relevance here. This sounds like more justification to me. Not only is this contradictory to any system that teaches transcendance, but also, if someone in court said the same thing about the crimes he'd committed, the jury would no doubt eiter send him to an institution, or to the electric chair. Actually, that's my thoughts of the entire Qur'an. But thanx for saying this, so I wouldn't have to.  Again, in all your justifications of these crimes against humanity, I've yet to hear you acknowledge the wrongness of it. Yours is the same position that slave owners (past and present) come from, in justifying slavery all over the world. In fact, it's the same position that Christ used in the Bible to justify slavery, and thus every Christian slave owner utters. Is slavery wrong, or no? Is the rape of women wrong, or no? You've spent alot of time here justifying, but not once scrutinizing. It seems like your agenda in this convo, has been to provide a countersponse to the shameful stupidity of the Bible (or Qur'an) with some bit of wisdom from it, as if one moment of wisdom somehow negates one moment of stupidity. Some QI-GONG like verse in the Book of Job, doesn't compensate for the FACT that bugs don't have 4 legs, or bats aren't birds, or that Camels aren't hoofed, or that women and children shouldn't be beaten, raped and killed. Once you start going into justification mode for this stuff, then you can just as easily start creating justifications for the slave trade, or the Holocaust, or the Massacre of the Native Americans, or Hiroshima. And once you start doing that, then you can basically throw whatever esoteric "wisdom" you are attempting to glean from these books right out the window. PEACE |
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Post by Tamahu on Jun 27, 2009 21:44:07 GMT -5
Once you start going into justification mode for this stuff, then you can just as easily start creating justifications for the slave trade, or the Holocaust, or the Massacre of the Native Americans, or Hiroshima. And once you start doing that, then you can basically throw whatever esoteric "wisdom" you are attempting to glean from these books right out the window. PEACE Ah, well said. Now I'm starting to see more where you're coming from on this. In the end, we'll probably end up agreeing to disagree about the issue of whether or not Gnostic and/or other Biblical books contain esoteric teachings such as Astral Projection, Tantra, etc. And in the end, it doesn't really matter so much because as you said we might as well throw it out the window, and go to other sources that say the same thing(and then some) without all of the genocide, rape, racism, etc. And if Biblical books do contain a degree of high esotericism, then the supposed unveiling of this Biblical esotericism started to get unveiled at least 1700 years too late anyway. In short, I would say that Biblical books do veil esotericism; however the WAY that it is veiled exposes the vicious intentions of those who veiled the knowledge, reasons for veiling it. Anyhow, if/when time permits, I'll elaborate on this more later. I just stumbled upon a relevant quote from Godfrey Higgins: "Mr. Franklin says, "Another striking instance is recorded by the very intelligent traveller (Wilson) regarding a representation of the fall of our first parents, sculptured in the magnificent temple of Ipsambul in Nubia. He says that a very exact representation of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden is to be seen in that cave, and that the serpent climbing the tree is especially delineated, and the whole subject of the tempting of our first parents most accurately exhibited."* How is the fact of the Mythos of the second book of Genesis being found in Nubia, probably a thousand miles above Heliopolis, to be accounted for, except that it came from Upper India with the first Buddhists or Gymnosophists? There they were found by Clemens Alexandrinus, and there they found a Meru, now called Meroe. The same Mythos is found in India..." I couldn't find a pic of this Nubian depiction on Google though. |
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Post by SAMURAI36 on Jun 28, 2009 9:02:52 GMT -5
Once you start going into justification mode for this stuff, then you can just as easily start creating justifications for the slave trade, or the Holocaust, or the Massacre of the Native Americans, or Hiroshima. And once you start doing that, then you can basically throw whatever esoteric "wisdom" you are attempting to glean from these books right out the window. PEACE Ah, well said. Now I'm starting to see more where you're coming from on this. In the end, we'll probably end up agreeing to disagree about the issue of whether or not Gnostic and/or other Biblical books contain esoteric teachings such as Astral Projection, Tantra, etc. And in the end, it doesn't really matter so much because as you said we might as well throw it out the window, and go to other sources that say the same thing(and then some) without all of the genocide, rape, racism, etc. Perhaps the Bible does contain some Esoterum, perhaps it doesn't. If it does, I think it's more by happenstance. But my point remains, how does the author (who we still don't know who they were) write of esoterum, alongside the brutality? What is the purpose of that? And don't you think these are questions that need to be answered, before moving forward? Further, do you acknowledge that the Bible was a plagarized document? If we can acknowledge that YAHWEH was stolen from Canaan, which is even alluded to in the Bible, why is it so far off, that they stole whatever Esoterum that YAHWEH represented? Thus, why is it so far-fetched that the authors were merely parroting what they had read from other spiritual systems? And, if this was the case, doesn't that cheapen the validity of these scriptures? For example, when we hear people from around the way, tryna use 5% slang, talking about " Yo, whassup God!!", knowing damn well they are not God-Body, that they just heard it on a Wu song, doesn't that lessen the meaning, as it comes from them? Wouldn't you probably say " man, stop perpetrating or fronting." So why can't the same thing be said of the Bible?? We clearly see that Abraham "learned" while in Sumer and Kemet, Moses "learned" while in Kemet and Canaan, etc within the text. So why don't we simply just learn from where ever they learned from, and cut these raping, murdering middle men from the equation? It's not like you all don't know where to go to get this knowledge from. What keeps you going back to the Bible, when you clearly don't have to? What's the emotional connection for you all? Agreed; and as I stated, you can get this knowledge elsewhere, and at 100% proof..... No manevolent agenda, no questionable ethics (racism, murder, rape, etc), and equally importantly, no stupidity. Did you know that the Hebrews couldn't count worth shit? I'm not talking about some complex mathematics. I'm talking basic addition, subtraction, multiplication, division... The building blocks of math. Straight dumb as shit. And of course, I can provide NUMEROUS examples of this. This is why I say, the whole idea of geniune esoterum from the Bible becomes increasingly unlikely, in the face of such remedial stupidity. It's like expecting rocket science from One-Toothed, Cousin-fucking Rednecks from West Virginia. But I look forward to further dialogue, from you and everyone else on this. I'm not sure of the relevance of this.. Perhaps you can elaborate more in your next response. PEACE |
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Post by Healthy Merking on Jun 28, 2009 9:39:09 GMT -5
well - for my money - as i mentioned near the beginning of this thread - it seems pretty clear to me that a great deal of what influenced the bible came from some sort of esoteric literature
there is a clear acknowledgement of some sort of metaphysics - as can be said about any text that deals with the comings and goings of mankind from a detached and narrative perspective
i recognize SAM's point and rationale for giving the bible a lower 'score' than what i gave it - admittedly i do not spend a great deal of time considering the centuries of darkness that the bible played a part in -
as mentioned in other threads that i have posted recently - in my daily comings and goings, i have much reason to believe that any stranglehold that book may have had on things is slip slip slipping away
and ive never found it hard to forgive (despite how many times it may have been the cause of my own personal suffering and pain)
that being said - i do not think that it holds a match to any of the core eastern texts that i have come across -
Tao te Ching has been brought up in this discussion, and it seems pretty evident that any of the 'values' that are promoted in the bible are also promoted in Tao te Ching - but - as SAMURAI mentioned - without the necessity for horror-movie-esque fear tactics
compare the books to different modes of parenting:
the parents who make up all sorts of wild supernatural shit to scare the living hell out of the child and keep him in line
vs
the parents who explain the movement of things, aim to give the child a understanding of what brings benefit and what brings harm, and then send him out to experience the world to see if the wisdom that they preached was consistent
its like night and day
for what its worth - i have met some insightful older christians, and it has become apparent to me that their wisdom came from years of experience and eventually understanding that the spooks in their holy book were indeed metaphors
whereas it seems like these youngsters who grow up, for example, with their feet planted in Hip Hop and/or (interestingly enough) an influence from either the world of science fiction or Japanese animation seem to develop a stronger foundation or at least a more open-minded approach to life at a younger age
Peace
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Post by Dr. D-Resperatation on Jun 29, 2009 0:24:58 GMT -5
SAMURAI36 I HOPE YOU DONT MIND IM GOING TO RESPOND TO SOME MORE OF YOUR ASSERTATIONS, NOT TRYING TO CHANGE YOUR MIND MORE FOR THE INTELECTUAL STIMULATION. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The problem with this, is that there's no proof historically that they were ever "oppressed" by anyone. But even within the story, they spent much more time as the oppressor, than as the oppressed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- THE BOOK OF GENISIS WAS WRITTEN SUPOSEDLY (ACCORDING TO BIBLICAL SCHOLARS) AFTER THE BABLYLONIAN CAPTIVITY. I BELIEVE CAPTIVITY IS A FORM OF OPPRESION. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The difference is that with the Mythological stories, that are just that: MYTHS. Do you or do you not, believe that the story of Noah and the Ark was a historical event? --------------------------------------------------------------------- THATS AN INTERESTING QUESTION, I DONT KNOW HOW FAMILIAR YOU ARE WITH MYTHOLOGIES, BUT DO YOU THINK ITS A COINCIDENCE THAT MANY ANCIENT MYTHOLOGIES HAVE STORIES OF FLOODS THAT SINK THE LAND. TAKE A LOOK AT THE SELECTIONS POSTED HERE AND TELL ME THAT MYTHOLOGIES DONT HAVE SOME HISTORICAL TRUTH TO THEM. www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35279&highlight=pupul--------------------------------------------------------------------- I would have no problem acknowledging the symbolism of both stories, except: #1 If the Sumerian story is far older, what use do we have for the more recent, and far more corrupted story? #2 You are purposely overlooking the racism of the Biblical/Talmudic story. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HOW WOULD YOU ACKNOWLEGE THE SYMBOLISM OF BOTH STORIES, MEANING, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE FLOOD SYMBOLIZED? AND I AM NOT OVERLOOKING THE BIBLICAL/TALMUDIC STORY, I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO KNOWLEGE OF IT. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Who is "they"? And why is "World Order" needed? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- THE EARLY JEWS NEEDED TO ESTABLISH A BEGINING NOT JUST TO THEIR HISTORY, BUT TO THEIR WORLD, SO THEY WROTE GENESIS. THIS BELIIF SYSTEM FACILITATED THEIR EXISTANCE BY POSITING THIER GOD AS THE CREATOR OF ALL THINGS. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The important fact here, is that the Tree was NEVER mentioned ever again in the Bible. Thus, the only significance for it, is that it does have some sort of significance, but not necessarily for neither the writers, nor the characters in their story. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS ISNT TRUE, THE WHOLE BIBLE DEALS WITH GOOD VRS EVIL, SO PUTTING THE BEGINING OF EVIL IN THE WORLD AT THE BEGINGING OF THE BOOK GIVES THE BOOK AN APT INTRODUCTION. NO? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It would perhaps, if the story had actually worked that way. I know you haven't really read the Bible, but at least you could read the verses that I have supplied above. The nations had developed "High Culture" while having different languages, and not in spite of them. Are you sure you are reading the same verses that I am? Egypt, Sumer, and Canaan had all developed as High Cultures, and they all had different langauges, and different dialects within each. What's your justification for this? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I HAVE ONE WORD FOR YOU. "METAPHORE" THIS STORY IS RICH WITH METAFORICAL MEANING, EVEN IF I CANT SAY FOR SURE WHAT THAT IS. AND THE DISCREPENCY IS FITTING IN THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT GOING FROM COMPLEATE HUMAN UNDERSTANDING AND COMUNICATION TO BEING SCATTERED AND ISLOATED LINGUISTICLY. IT IS REMNISCENT OF THIS: So awesome was the fearfully aspected thing that the memory mercifully departed from man, his thoughts were smothered under a cloud of forgetfulness. THUS READS THE LAST LINE FROM THE COMPILATIONS OF MYTHOLIGIES I SUPPLIED YOU WITH ABOVE. PERHAPS THE COMPILERS OF THE BIBLE WERE PUTTING THE INCONSISTANCY IN "THE BOOK" SO AS TO ALERT MAN TO SOMETHING HE KNOWS BUT FAILS TO REMEMBER, SUCH AS THE ABILITY TO COMUNICATE WITH ALL PEOPLE OR THE FACT THAT THEIR EARTH HAD BEEN DESTROYED BEFORE BY A FEARFULL BEAST. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NO, what it implies is that "GOD" had to "come down" (from where? I thought "God" was everywhere), and "see what they are doing". God has to put a halt on natural human progress, which he himself had given them the ability to do. He didn't want us to reach "his level". God can stop progress and growth, but he can condone acts of savagery, such as raping women. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I DONT KNOW IF YOU ARE AWARE OF THIS, BUT THE HEBREW BIBLE ISNT THE ONLY BOOK WHERE GOD FEARS LEST MAN HAVE HEAVENLY ABILITIES. I LOST MY PUPUL VUH, BUT I KNOW IT STATES THAT GODS WHO CREATED MAN RECONGIZED MEN COULD SEE AND UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING, AND DISLIKED THIS SO THEY DID SOMETHING TO LIMIT HIS CAPACITIES. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't subscribe to any such notion. These books appear exactly as they do in the Barasith. That means that the "switching of chapters" had taken place from the earliest of times. Possibly even the original author had done it themselves.... Which continually implies that they were either stupid, or purposefully misleading and deceptive to the reader. Either way, I could care less. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WHAT IS BARASITH? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Psa 50:3 Our God comes and will not be silent; a fire devours before him, and around him a tempest rages. IN YOUR VIEW THIS IS JUST A STUPID DESCRIPTION OF A VOLCANO, BUT I KNOW THAT THE POETIC READER WILL SEE THE SPIRTUAL EXHALTATION OF A BEING HERE, A BEING THAT IS GLORIFIED PERHAPS BY A VOLCANO, BUT DEFINATLY BEYOND A TORNADO. Huh? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- THE DEVIL MADE ME DO THAT. I MEANT VOLCANO NOT TORNADO.  ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I've already covered this "striking resemblance". Are you not aware of the Global agenda at work, and how it started with religion? You (and other Bible believers) make the relationship between Revelations and the current events of the world sound like they are mutually exclusive from each other. The Illuminati (for lack of a better name) had been entangled in religious organizations since its inception. How hard is it to conceptualize that these secret groups have read and mastered these texts, to the point of using the ideas therein to manipulate the masses thru-out the ages? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WHERE DID YOU COVER THIS STRIKING RESEMBLENCE? I AM AWARE OF NO SUCH GLOBAL AGENDA. HOW HAS THE ILLUMINATI (FOR BACK OF A LETTER NAME) BEING ENTAGNLED IN RELIGIOUS ORGANISATIONS SINCE ITS INCEPTION? I DONT SEE HOW REVELATIONS THOUGH WOULD ASIST THE PLAN OF THE BEAST. RATHER I THINK IT SERVES TO PREPARE AND WARN. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Where was the practice of chanting (meditational)healing in the Bible, as it is with the Shaman way? And I'm not talking about Jesus healing the sick or raising the dead either. One isolated instance, in what amounts contextually to thousands of years of it not happening consistently... And, when it happened, the "Priesthood" abhored it. I wonder why that was.... Where was the practice of things like martial arts, acupuncture, trance meditation, sexual tantra, etc in the Bible, as it was with the Taoist ways? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FIRST OF ALL SOME PEOPLE CHANT AND MEDITATE, OTHER FOLLOW DOCRTINES OF LAW AND MAKE SACRAFICES AND PRAY. THE FATHER GAVE TO EACH RACE ITS SPECIFIC DUTY/TENDENCY. AND THE ARTS OF ENERGY CULTIVATION WERE NOT GIVEN TO THE WHITE MAN. READ THIS: 1986 Lee Brown Speech, Fairbanks, Alaska www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread129367/pg2SCROLL DOWN TO ABOUT 1/2 WAY TO A POST BY BlackGuardXIII. (IF YOU WANT TO) YOU WILL SEE THAT IT WAS NOT GOD'S INTENTION FOR THE WHITE MAN TO BE PRACTICING TAI CHI AT THAT TIME. --------------------------------------------------------------------- How is Christ a "true God" A true God of what, and whom? Christ is yet another imaginary figure, from a long list of imaginary figures that comprises the Bible. --------------------------------------------------------------------- CHRIST IS A CHRIST FIGURE, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, THAT HAS APPEARED IN MANNY CULTURES, AND THE SIMILARITIES OF HIS STORY TO THE CHARACTER HORUS SUGGEST THAT THE TRADITION OF THE KEMETENS WAS ALIVE IN THE JEWS, NOT BORROWED OR STOLLEN BY THE JEWS. WHY ELSE WOULD THE MYTH OF HOURUS BE APPROPRIATED SO MANY YEARS AFTER THE BEGINING OF JEWISH HISTORY? --------------------------------------------------------------------- JOB 38:20 WHAT IS THE WAY TO THE ABODE OF LIGHT? AND WHERE DOES DARKNESS RESIDE. TELL ME THAT IS NOT A WORTHY PARABLE. GZA "YOU REMAIN STUCK TRING TO FIGURE THE SHAPE OF SPACE" SAME IDEA. RZA "EXISTEN EVERYWHERE BUT YOU STILL CANT LOCATE" MORE OF THE SAME. As I'd said previously, if you continue to swing the bat, you're bound to hit the ball. That doesn't make you worthy of playing in the majors, though. And I'm nearly positive that neither RZA nor GZA learned these wisdoms from the Bible. They call themselves "Wu-Tang" for a reason. --------------------------------------------------------------------- YOU ARE RIGHT WU TANG NEVER QUOTES THE BIBLE, OR USES BIBLICAL REFERENCES. SONS OF MAN ISNT COMPLEATLY BASED ON THE BIBLE. THERE IS NO ALBUM CALLED VIEW FROM MASSADA. I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT MASTA KILLAH HAS STATED JOB WAS ONE OF HIS BIBLICAL HEOROES, AND DOES HE OR DOES HE NOT QUOTE REVELETIONS VERY SERIOUSLY AT THAT WHEN HE SAYS, "HERE I COME AS PREDICTED HOLDING THE RAW SEAL ALL HEADS KNEEL." HE EVEN GOES SO FAR AS TO CLAIM HAVING WRITTEN THE BIBLE SAYING "WHO WROTE THE HOLY KORAN OR BIBLE? BEING THAT PERSON WITH THE SAID ABILTY, MAKES ME RESPONCIBLE FOR THE UNCIVIL" NOT THAT THIS PROVES OR DISPROVES THE BIBLE, BUT... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You're reaching again. You are also supposed to do the very same, when a greater nobleman enters the room. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I ASSUEMED THAT THE CIVIC CUSTUMS WERE BASED ON WISDOM UNDERSTANDING. MEANING WHY ELSE WOULD IT BE CUSTUM TO HAVE YOUR TUNG AGINST THE ROOF OF YOUR MOUTH, IF YOU DIDNT KNOW THAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE CIRCULATEING ENERGY THROUGH THIS PRACTICE. ITS NOT AS IF THE NOBLEMAN IS GOING TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE. --------------------------------------------------------------------- VARIOUS CHURCHES ARE ANALGOUS TO VARIOUS CHAKRAS, SO THE BODY OF CHRIST IS SEEN AS APPARENT WITHIN MAN AND WITHIN THE WORLD. I would agree with this, except: #1 that technically, these churches were not in Asia, they were in Europe. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- IS IT NOT POSSIBLE THAT THEY WERE USEING ASIA IN THE SAME SENCE THAT THE 5 PERCENT DOES REFERING TO THE MIND? WHY ELSE WOULD THIS GLARRING INCONSISTANCY BE DELIBERATLY PUT THERE. I ASK THIS HUMBLY AS I DO NOT KNOW THE ORIGIN OF THE CONOTATION. --------------------------------------------------------------------- THE QUALITY OF AN INTRICITE PIECE OF LITERATURE SUGGESTS A PROFOUND MIND. How is profundity determined? An author that doesn't know how many legs a bug has, is profound in your view? I'm perpetually amazeds as to how you can continue to compare Eastern texts with the Bible.... It's like comparing sugar and shit, in my view. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS WAS WRITTEN WAY AFTER LAVITACUS OR WHICH EVER BOOK HAS THE BUG PROBLEM YOU MENTION. AND THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CERTAIN VERCES FOR EXAMPLE REV. 8.1. SAYS, "WHEN HE OPPENED UP THE SEVENTH SEAL, THERE WAS SILENCE IN HEAVEN FOR ABOUT HALF AN HOUR." WHAT COULD THIS POSSIBLY MEAN. TRUELY I WOULD PROBABLY QUESTION ANYONE CLAIMING TO KNOW, BUT I WOULD NOT DOUBT THAT THE VERCE HAS MEANING. IT IS WHAT I WOULD CALL A "KNOWING DETAIL" MEANING IT HAS TO HAVE MEANING. ONE CAN NOT IMAGINGE SUCH A DETAIL WITHOUT KNOWING HEAVEN AND THE NATURE OF HEAVEN AND THE RELATIONSHIP HEAVEN HAS WITH GOD. Who's to say that it's not casual hyperbole? How is this no different than if I were to say: "Yo sunn, I gots rhymes for days!!" I could literally mean that I have so many rhymes that I could start rapping, and could keep rapping for days.... Or, and I'm sure you know, given our mutual affinity for Hip-Hop and Wu-Tang, that it's probably just a slang term, meaning "I can rhyme very well". And that serves my point from earlier; you have to admit that you don't know what this means (and have yet to attribute some mystical value to it, despite your desire to do so), because you're missing key info to the discernment process. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I DONT KNOW, I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT MOST HIP HOP SLANG HAD MEANING AND WAS NEVER ARBITRARY. MY ASSUMPTION WAS THAT RHYMES FOR DAYS MENT HIS RHYMES WERE FLOWING LIKE HIS INCOME, SO AS TO SAY HE IS COVERED FOR THE FUTURE, AND IF YOU DOUBT THIS YOU WOULD HAVE TO QUESTION THE ANALOGY AS IF HIS WORDS WERNT MONEY, BUT PERHAPS I THINK TO HARD. --------------------------------------------------------------------- WHAT COULD THE POWERS THAT BE, BE TRYING TO BRING TO FRUITION BESIDES THE MARK OF THE BEAST AND THE ANTICHRIST? How's about, confusion and distraction of the masses, which has been their agenda all along? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- THE IMPROBABILITY OF SUCH DELIBERATLY COUNTERPRODUCTIVE PLANS WOULD MANDATE A TYPE OF EVIL THAT I DONT THINK EXISTS. DO YOU KNOW WHAT IM SAYING? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote:THEY CANT MAKE THE TRUMPETS BLOW, THAT HAPPENS WHEN IT IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN. You're joking, yes? They can't make TRUMPETS blow? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I SUPPOSE YOU HAVE KNOWLEGE OF THE HOUR? --------------------------------------------------------------------- You don't know if the Church Fathers "picked certain books", or if they actually wrote them themselves. You don't know any of the 5W's (and 1H, LOL) about any of this. --------------------------------------------------------------------- THE CHURCH FATHERS WERE ROMAN, THEY DIDNT WRITE JEWISH HISTORY. --------------------------------------------------------------------- IT WOULD NOT SURPRISE ME IF THESE BOOKS WERE COMPILED FOR THE PURPOSE OF ESTABLISHING A BEGINING AND AN ENDING WHERE THERE IS NONE FOR SOME MYSTICAL PURPOSE. Would it surprise you that these books were simply written to control the masses, and nothing more? --------------------------------------------------------------------- IT WOULDNT SUPRISE ME IF THESE BOOKS WERE WRITTEN TO CONTROLL THE MASSES, BUT I WOULD BE SUPRISED IF SOMEONE WITH SUCH AN AMOUNT OF INSIGHT INTO THE WAYS OF HUMANITY WOULD WANT TO CONTROLL THE MASSES, "AND NOTHING MORE". MEANING, THE MANIPULATION OF HUMANITY WOULD HAVE TO SERVE SOME END, AND THIS WOULD PROBABLY NOT BE WORLDLY. --------------------------------------------------------------------- All this is great... However, who's to say that it's the only map, if it's even a map to begin with? All over the planet, people are transcending this fucked up world, without any use of the Bible, whatsoever. --------------------------------------------------------------------- PERHAPS THE MASSES OF PEOPLE ARE TRANSENDING THIS WORLD IN ACCORDENCE WITH THE FACT THAT THE BIBLE'S AGE IS ENDING. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THE EXPLANATION THAT THE WORD GENESISS COMES FROM GEMENI AND AQUARIOUS. I HEARD IT ON AN IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE C.D. ONCE I BELIEVE. "AQUEMENI IS AQUUARIOUS AND THE GEMENI RUN THIS SHIT" GET IT AQUARIOUS PLUS GEMENI = AQUEMINI. THAT FROM OUTKAST BUT I THOUGHT THEY GOT THE IDEA FROM THE BIBLE EVEN IF THATS NOT THE MEANING OF THE WORD, I'M PRETTY SURE THE ZIETEGIST VIDEO PUT UP CLAIMS JESUS REPRESTENTS THE AGE WE ARE IN NOW, WHICH IS WHY HE IS ASSOCIATED WITH THE SYMBOL OF THE FISH, OR PYCIES. THIS JUST A THEORY, BUT IT WOULD GIVE THE BIBLE'S SIGNIFICANCE TO THE MODERN WORLD A LITTLE RELEVENCE. --------------------------------------------------------------------- THATS ALL I HAVE TO SAY FOR NOW. DONT THINK IM TRYING TO FORCE THE BIBLE ON YOU. AT LEAST WITH ALL OF THIS DISCUSSION YOU WILL HAVE GAINED SOMETHING IN READING A BOOK YOU THINK SO LITTLE OF. PEACE |
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Post by SAMURAI36 on Jun 29, 2009 10:44:53 GMT -5
SAMURAI36 I HOPE YOU DONT MIND IM GOING TO RESPOND TO SOME MORE OF YOUR ASSERTATIONS, NOT TRYING TO CHANGE YOUR MIND MORE FOR THE INTELECTUAL STIMULATION. I don't mind at all... However, I think its important that I'm taking notice that this convo is a bit one-sided. True. However, assuming that this is true, would you care to speculate why they were captured? According to the historical accounts, the The Sumerians, Akkadians, and Babylonians (3 transitional stages of the same city-state) all mentioned the Habbatu as theives and murderers. Thus, can we not extrapolate that they were captured as the criminals that they were.... The very criminals that they wrote of themselves in their own book, as being? Yes, all mythologies have truth to them, this is undeniable. However, that's not the same as a mythological story is not the same as a historical event. I'd like to point out also, that oftentimes, the reason why so many different cultures have the same or similar mythology, is due to cultural diffusion. It's the same reason that many cultures across the planet have similar words, dialects or even whole languages. Stop to consider, how numerous cultures, never having actually met one another, came up with similar inventions. The 2 most common weapons in all of humanity are: THE BOW AND ARROW, and THE SWORD. Scholars have found indigenous discoveries of both, all over the planet, and all thru-out history. Afterall, how would one account for Pyramids being built all over the planet? (and no, I'm not hinting at some stupid alien agenda either. Otherwise, we would have seen these pyramids or similar structures built in Europe, and we haven't.) We can begin to discuss the Sumerian Antideluvian account in a new thread, if you so wish. But germane to this thread, suffice it to say, both accounts had a different reasoning between the two. The Biblical thread represents a despisal of the different cultures that the Habbatu had interacted with. The fact that you have no knowledge of the Talmud, means that you are missing a key aspect of your Biblical belief. Sadly though, while you are supplying me links about the different mythological stories (all of which I am intimately familiar, thus you are not showing me anything I don't already know), you have yet to look up anything on the Talmud, after I've mentioned it to you. There are websites all over the net, showcasing articles, discussions, and various other aspects of research. This reveals and aspect about you and your "belief" about the Bible. If you are half as interested in the pursuit of knowledge as you seem, then hopefully you will have read up on it, by the time you tender your next response. A jaundiced view of the Jews and their M.O. I would instead say: The early Jews, after settling upon a new identity (one that detaches them from all the previous scandalous names of their past), sought to begin their new globalist agenda, and needed a religion that reflected this. But even if we go with your explanation, that doesn't explanation all this "Esoterum" that you have gleaned from the Bible. You evaded my statement. I stated that the TREE was not mentioned again. Not Good and Evil. Adam and Eve had been mentioned numerous times after that event, but the Tree, which was an integral part of their story was not. Thus, one must ask, if it was so integral to Hebraic spirituality, why not continue to mention it? We see the various mechanisms of Kemetic, Sumerian, Indian, and Chinese culture constantly written in their theologies. You are merely postulating, as you have done this entire discussion. Not really providing alot of information, just stating that something is true, simply because you believe it to be. This is quite reminiscent of what Bible believers do. Quite an unhealthy mindset; one that is quite detrimental to actual spiritual growth. For a metaphor to have value, it must at least make sense within it's own context. Clearly you didn't read the verses. That's not what happened. In context of the story, humanity developed to High culture. Then "God" seeing the Tower of Babel being built, had problems with the development. The problem with the story, is that when the "Tower" (Really Ziggurats) was built humanity's dialects were already diversified, even within the context of the story. So what did "God come down" to really do? Diversify the languages even more? Once again, your Sunday school tale is replete with even more confusion. The author(s) simply couldn't keep the story straight. This sounded like what most likely happened to the authors of the Bible, LOL. Wow, you postulate like the best of fat, greasy preachers. Why are you not willing to fathom, that perhaps they put this inconsistency in the Bible, simply because they didn't know what they were talking about? You don't use deductive reasoning very well, if at all. Is your postulation the same reason that they wrote in the Bible, that a bat is a bird, and that insects have 4 legs? I'm familiar with the Popul Vuh, in that: #1 It was written during a time of Latin colonization, #2 It was written with aspects of the Bible in mind-- The very Bible that was used to conquer the Mayan peoples #3 It was written mostly in Latin, and not necessarily in the original tongue of the supposed author. #4 Much like the Bible, we don't know exactly who wrote it, which is duly problematic, considering that finding out an author from 500 years ago shouldn't be that difficult, given modern scholarship. Look at the POPOL VUH manuscript:  It matches that of the Bible, almost exactly. It looks almost Shakespearian. That's a "divine coincidence" to you? It's especially important to note that the POPUL VUH is merely a copy of the SAN BARTOLO MURALS, and the oral traditions of The Qiche'. So, I am to believe some "Mayan Priest" wrote this? If this was indeed the case, then this "Mayan Priest" had to have been highly schooled by the Spaniards. All the more reason why it shouldn't have been all that difficult to track down the original author. #4 The only non-Latin, Mayan copy (supposedly the original transcript) was confiscated by the Spaniards, and locked away. This is what extrapolation and deductive reasoning looks like. It's far too easy to merely "believe" something, rather than to scrutinize it exhaustively. The latter can only help one's spiritual growth, while the former only hurts it. Wow man, do you actually know anything about the Bible??? I would highly suggest that you suspend any belief that you have about the Bible, until you thoroughly study all it's aspects. Perhaps you should begin at the beginning, with the BARASHITH. Yep, sure. Does the devil make you continue to believe in this book, without properly studying it as well? I'd covered it earlier in this thread. And you are not aware, because you have not studied. Your pursuit of knowledge is not grounded, my friend. You are "up in the clouds" looking for metaphors and mysticism in the Bible, but haven't bothered to research into the most simplistic of aspects of it, not to mention the current events of the world around you. If/When the Illuminati come knocking at your door, ready to enslave you with the rest of the world, what will you do? Throw your esoteric Bible verses at them? Tell them that what they are doing is "un-Biblical", according to your view of it? Says the person that knows nothing about the Illuminati, their plan, their history, etc. More postulations abound, with not a single shred of information deduced. All you have, is the comfort of believing in your Bible. Not that it really matters, but which one are you? . That, I agree with, Which is why I have no such use for this Eurasian literary tool, known as your Bible. Interesting, though I struggle to see the relevance here. LOL, "Christ is a Christ figure". That's like saying, "I am a black guy, black guy." Christ is a mythological figure that has been psuedo-actualized thru-out the ages, for the purpose of furthering a nefarious agenda. Heru is (one of) the purest forms of what you call "Christ". With far less racism and misogyny that your Christ clearly demonstrated in your Bible. But of course, you don't know anything about that, do you? I don't quite understand what you are asking here. The story of Heru came thousands of years before anything called "Christ" ever existed, and even before "Jewish History". I never stated that Wu never quotes the Bible. However, Sunz Of Man is not completely based on the Bible. Only 2 members are Hebrew Israelites, the other 2 are Islamic. Nonetheless, all members are under the Wu Paradigm, which is far more than the Bible. You are aware what "MASADA" means to Killah Priest, yes? It's an acronym. That's great. But that does not explain any Biblical Esoterum. Do you know where Masta Killah got that quote? It comes from the 5% lessons. It has nothing to do with the Bible. Are you serious? You're still reaching. When you walk into someone's house, do you take your shoes off, or your hat? Why? Are you "circulating energy" when you are obeying the rules of the house? The purpose of identifying the "Nobleman" in this context, is to demonstrate the position of the other people around him. In ancient times, if you were not a Nobleman, then you were a peasant, even a slave. And it's not true that the Nobleman "wouldn't know the difference". Go to your mirror, and look at your face, when you push your tongue to the top of your mouth. --------------------------------------------------------------------- I suggest you spend time finding out what the term "Asia" means, and where it comes from, rather than continuing to reach and postulate, and you'll perhaps see the reason for this glaring inconsistency, as you call it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- You didn't answer my question, and the fact remains that you have not remotely read the Bible, not even a little bit. First off, you don't even know when either Leviticus, nor Revelations was written, to make such an assertion. Further, I merely gave the "bug problem" as one example. You don't think there are numerous other issues with the Bible, between Leviticus and Revelations. Perhaps not hard enough, especially when it comes to your Bible. Nope, I haven't a clue, except that what you said here, probably feeds into your continued postulation. What does that have to do with your statement above? Trumpets and hours are distinctly unrelated. How do you know? More postulations abound. Why? What was your extrapolation process for this reasoning? Because you have yet to show it here, other than the fact that you just wish to continue believing in your Bible, and hope that it, and the few "mystical verses" therein, are correct. In the meantime, what is the agenda of the Illuminati? Oh that's right, you don't really know. But you assume that their agenda is benevolent, because you assume that the Bible is as well, and thus anyone with any sort of history with this book must be okay. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Wow, you are quite the myopic fellow, aren't you?? How do you manage to mention the Tao earlier, and then totally disregard it later? People are transcending all over the world, regardless and despite the Bible, just as they have done thru-out the ages. There were, and still are cultures that have no use for the Bible, and/or have rejected it from the time they were first exposed to it. Despite your continued belief, people have been getting along just fine without this book. Oh yeah, more wordplay. Contrary to the "mystical" consensus, words and languages are not created that way. Well, with the exception of modern english. Firstly, The word Genesis is Greek, and Gemini and Aquarius are Latin. Second, the word Genesis is older than the two astrological terms. Thus, that's like saying that you are your grandfathers ancestor. You really need to do some actual research, my friend, and get your head out of that Bible. It's really not doing you any good. It's only serving to confuse you. I'm sure you did think that. But I could care less. Rappers can be the basis for one's research, but not the foundation. And actually, Outkast mixed the name AQUEMINI, because one member is Aquarius, and the other is Gemini. See, this is yet another glarring example of you continuously reach for truths where there are none, when OCCUM'S RAZOR continues to prevail. You've made up in your mind, an entire theological agenda behind the name of an album, when the artists are far from being that developed, and when there was a clearly more simple explanation for the name of the album. What you fail to realize, but I have been taking notice to the whole time, is you have been doing this all along. I have no problem with the Astological aspects of the Bible. However, seeing as how the author(s, whom we still don't know any of the W's behind) copied much of this from other cultures, it bears little relevance to me. I've thrown the Bible out with the bathwater, and would highly advise you to do the same. My friend, you think a little too highly of the Bible, and your belief in it, to sell me on anything regarding it, even if that was your agenda here. Meaning, you are not knowledgeable enough on it, to sell me on it. And, you have missed the mark on "shedding new light" regarding it, to me as well. You haven't brought me anything that I haven't already known, or discovered on my own about it. However, can the same be said vice versa? Did you know about the rapes, and the volcano worship, and the vile acts of savagery in the Bible? If not, then it was I who had shown you some new things. And what is even more sad, is that you still continue be in denial about these things. Not once have you bothered to discuss the rapes which I have pointed out to you, in your illustrious "mystical text". You refuse to discuss how your mystical Jews can talk about how to transcend by sticking their tongue to their nose, or some such nonsense, but they don't know how many legs a bug has. You can make up meanings for the origin of Genesis, but you don't even know what the BARASHITH is. Why do you continue to avoid these things? HOTEPU |
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